Stoy Hall:
0:00

Hey, welcome back everybody. This is season two, we'll call it that. I don't know. We'll go season. Good to be back. It's, finally here. Our Money Mindset series, and we're gonna, we're gonna blast it off with something that's came from Twitter, came from the universe, the Twitterverse which you're not familiar with. Okay, but my guy that's extreme. Are you on it, No. No. See, So you have less experience. Okay. But great conversations had Fin Twit is a legit thing. But our guest Josh Bar here with alternative fp, another cfp by the way ladies and gents I'm gonna let him divulge who he is, what he's about, what his firm's, about, what he looks for in the middle. Wyoming. I don't even know. I don't, I know where Cody is, but it's like in the middle of nowhere. So we'll discuss that we'll discuss the hot topic that brought us to this conversation that we came from on Twitter, and then we'll have some other tidbits in there for you. Josh, tell us about you, your background, and where you're from, and then we'll get into your firm.

Joshua Barbin:
1:07

Cool. Thanks story. Thanks Lisa. Yeah, so I'm, originally a Pennsylvania guy, so pa I think it's one of the best states in the country, I'm not gonna lie. Just like on a balance perspective, Virginia's up there. See, this is why I would, the way I look at like how you rank the states and every state has things that are good about it, but Pennsylvania has balance. You get Philly, you have Pittsburgh, and then the inside it's call it Penn, Kentucky. You get a nice balance in Pennsylvania, Virginia, similar, or Western Virginia, it's much different. But then you get DC area, you get so. I'm, I've never been on the West Coast, California and stuff like that, so I, don't know how those states compare. But anyways, I'm in Wyoming now, like you said, and then Cody, it's like they're, still living like cowboy land. Like they, they really are trying to maintain that image. And like when you drive into town, it says don't California or Cody on a big sign. Started vicious,

Stoy Hall:
2:04

lot of it

Joshua Barbin:
2:06

but it's, cool. My, I like my wife is black. We're, like an interracial family I guess you call us in. So it's interesting. Navigating like in a really white area, what I would call white area

Stoy Hall:
2:23

yeah, you're not gonna have very many black people in Wyoming, let alone Cody, Wyoming say

Joshua Barbin:
2:27

that. Yeah. Yeah. But like we we've, overall been treated really kindly. You'd be surprised there's a lot of transients here. So it's, not that people are totally like, only been in Wyoming. There's a lot of people that have been in other places, but it's been good. It Wyoming's a nice place to run a business. Paul Wyoming is just a good business friendly state. So that, on that round, on that front, it's been good. Yeah, so that's kind

Lisa Grefe:
2:53

of what brought you to Wyoming or the two of you to

Joshua Barbin:
2:56

Wyoming. I don't know if I want a Go ahead answer this. Let's just start out. Okay. Kanye, but anyways, I'm not gonna go too deep into that. Yeah. But we'll just leave it there. That's fine. But I've had a long standing relationship out here in Cody for about 10, 12 years now. And then but I'm not gonna go into that. Yeah. But I will say that

Stoy Hall:
3:18

Absolutely. Absolutely. Your firm alternative fp you work with your wife, which we just discussed. Our wives work together and we are both like I don't know if we could cross, that bridge for them to work for us, but talk us through your firm, your vision and, why. en enlighten us a little more on the X RRP community, enlighten us why you do and why you're named alternative fp, by the

Joshua Barbin:
3:42

way. Yeah, so let's start with the, with Ashley. My relationship with Ashley in terms of work is I think anytime a couple's gonna work together, they have to like, have clear boundaries of where that, cuz and my wife and I are both strong personalities, like we're. you don't wanna see our fight. Basically. Like it's not that it's like super ugly, but it's just like we both have really strong opinions and she hates the way I work. She just hates it. and she's get a task person. And I'm like a think person. I like to sit on something or really think it out. That's like a perfect partnership. Yeah. Yeah. It's good until it like bleeds into like personal life, and then it's like your work fight becomes your home fight and it just sucks. No, Ashley really does the marketing side of business. That's pretty much what she does. I pretty much handle all, like everything else, basically I'm a solo firm, small practice. I work like you said, with the X RRP community, which is interesting. It's it's been a risky play, let's put it that way to say the least. To build a business around a single company, around a single digital asset called X rrp. To even try to build a practice around Bitcoin, which has a lot more like stability than x rrp, if you can hardly believe that, like you could call Bitcoin stable, right? But comparatively because X RRP is and, Ripple are both pretty much under fire right now from the s e c who regulates us and Wyoming regulates me, but generally speaking, the s e C is suing Ripple who created X R P and saying it's an unregistered security. It's not a crypto, it's not it's a stock that they're selling in the guise of a crypto asset. So that makes my work interesting cuz like it's the SSC pretty much saying it's illegal. But the problem is that they don't get to decide that at the end of the day, that's not how our legal system works. So they've made a claim, they've made a a, legal claim that it is illegal, but right now it's in the Southern district of New York. The court case is in the Southern District of New York, and a, judge named and, Lisa Torres is gonna decide on that matter, March 31st, 2023 most likely summary judgment is scheduled for. That's there's a whole layer

Stoy Hall:
6:06

of legal stuff. It's legal stuff

Joshua Barbin:
6:07

there, right? Yeah. This is the way that I look at it too. I just put an article out two days ago about this. I see about 90% odds, and I know it's probably sounds aggressive, but I see in 90% odds that X RRP comes out of this positively. Whether Ripple wins or loses the case, it almost, I almost see it as not mattering. There's about a 10% chance in my mind that X R P. it gets utterly destroyed to zero. That's the risk that people entering this investment or this asset just have to accept that there is a definite total loss of principle risk. But my analysis of the case says it probably won't happen like that and it probably will be positive when it's a big risk as an advisory from crypto, as you guys know, doesn't have a lot of legal clarity, first of all, just to be advising on, and then we have this super risky asset because it's in a lawsuit. It's not just like non clarity. It's like the S E C's being very clear.

Stoy Hall:
7:05

Yeah, Yep.

Joshua Barbin:
7:08

And I'm just like that kind of guy. I guess that I just, I don't think they're right. First of all, I think Ripple has a promise of being one of the most valuable companies on the planet. And I obviously I hold Ripple shares, so I'm biased when I say that. Here's the thinking behind this, and I'll shut up about this in a second, but I just want to put some framework around why I've narrowed my business so tightly. In 2018, X RRP went up to about$3 and 40 cents,$3 and 34 cents, I think it was. Ripple owns right now about 60 billion of those. And if you just do a little times table there and you times$3 and 30 cents times 60 billion, the valuation of that asset on Ripple's balance sheet, now they say it's an off balance sheet asset. It's, they own it. So that's over 180 billion right there, just at that 2018 hun. Now, look at Bitcoin 2018, it landed about 20,000. After 2018, it went up to 69 or 70,000. So it, it was at like almost four x so if we did the same thing for xrp, let's say it was$3 and 34 cents, it went up to four x times, that's$12 times that by 60 billion. It, to me, we're now looking at a Google, Amazon, apple, something like that. And s e c wants to say, you can't play well you're gonna have to hash that out in court body cuz to, say, and this is I guess the alternative side, which I, this probably even sounds a little reckless to you guys. I know you guys dabble in the alternatives quite, quite a bit. But that's the thinking, that's the rationale. I think it's all legal. I'm disclosing everything I own. And my position, obviously I'm biased. If you take that risk, you do run the risk of losing your investment entirely. But this is the, play that I've made in the space and we'll see if it pays off.

Stoy Hall:
9:09

Yeah. Do you believe though that. There should be more regulations around that mar the whole industry over there. It's

Joshua Barbin:
9:18

awful, dude. It's, it really is awful what is allowed to happen in the crypto community. And I am, an outsider in the X RRP community for this point of view because a lot of people say do your own research and you should understand if you know the risk you should be taking. And the reality is you don't know the risk people. The s e C generally regulates securities, like they give the investor the benefit of the doubt. But how do they regulate? They regulate with disclosure. They regulate with registration is basically just showing your financials, right? I think there will be some, the compromise with Ripple will probably be, there's gonna be some disclosure. You're not gonna be able to sell to retail anymore. They're gonna re restrict what they can do with, that X rrp. But overall, I do think generally speaking, like any crypto, there's gotta be similar types of regulation. I'll tell you why. there's so many pumping dumps. I see the, people who own 95% of an asset, and this is what S C's kind of coming at Ripple for too. And they, own 95% of an asset. They go on a Twitter, get a bunch of influencers to talk about it, to say how good it is. Say they start pumping the price, people get excited about it, and then it, then they, sell it all. That's what a ripple is being accused of too. So I, am aware of like the potential moral hazard of Ripple. I think they're doing it a little more, honestly, just my analysis of it. But yeah, I think those regulations do need to happen and they should be coming soon.

Stoy Hall:
10:50

Yeah. I, believe they need to for cryptos. To continue to grow the, uncertainty. There's so much illegal activity top to bottom with it that is happening, which happens in every unregulated industry. Not just crypto let's be real. This has happened on for generations. But it needs to happen in, we were just talking to our marketing team today about a new blog. And I had mentioned this a lot and I wanna get your, point of view on this. I know this is a little off topic, but I also had a Twitter conversation about this with Finit. What is your belief of the accredited investor rule?

Joshua Barbin:
11:30

That's part of my thing. I'm not a millionaire at this point yet God willing soon. But generally speaking, I only have the opportunity to invest in Rebel because of the s e c accreditation being SIR 65 or the finra, sorry. And I don't think it's a terrible role. And again, it comes back to the like ability to, con people. Especially if if you're talking private Marcus, now you have no disclosure. Like I had to invest in Ripple blind, like I don't know their financials, I don't know exactly what's going on behind the scene. You can piece some things together, but reality is the private market and they don't have to tell you. And I took that risk. So I don't think it's a terrible rule, but I think there are a lot of people who are getting a little frustrated by it. And then what if you take crypto accredited only, that could also add some additional frustration. What's your thoughts

Stoy Hall:
12:28

on that? I think it's a shit rule, honestly. Flat out that it's a shit rule. I understand. I was wait for you to say that. I understand the, premise around it now. The disclosure. I think you wanna keep that. I think all of investment should have those disclosures and regulations. That's fine. But the accreditation part basically the government has decided, s e c has decided that because you have enough money, you're intelligent enough to make that decision. Which also on the flip side means because you are broke poor or don't have$1.1 million and make 250,000, that you're not intelligent enough to make these decisions for yourself to build your wealth and your net worth. That's the part I do not agree with. Is it about

Lisa Grefe:
13:11

intelligence or is it about that they have other money? If it's,

Stoy Hall:
13:15

both. Something happens, it's both. It comes down to their ability to understand what they're getting into and the ability to take on that loss, that risk, right? That loss. But part of that is because in our industry, we've deemed alternatives as super risky when I know a ton of alternatives that are less risky than the stock market. So how, do we look at that?

Joshua Barbin:
13:36

How, do you, what kind of vaults are you using to actually de-risk a portfolio as opposed to increase the risk?

Stoy Hall:
13:43

So we're heavy in real estate, obviously. We're heavy in preferred debt as well. And then there's, a handful of banking instruments out there that are fully collateralized by someone else's, like by the bank and stuff. So there's alts out there that are in the private sector that are allowed to de-risk, real estate itself on a risk level is less risky than the s and p 500. So yeah, definitely. So why leverage,

Joshua Barbin:
14:10

usually people use leverage with real

Stoy Hall:
14:12

estate, correct? Yep. And leverage comes into play. Sometimes it doesn't. It, there's obviously in the alt space there's a hundred different ways to do things. But that's what I get to is it's less risky than someone going ahead and going on a meme streak. A meme, stock streak, but that's okay, right? They can go do that and hold the bag later, but they can't go get into a property with multimillionaires and just put a little$10,000 in and start to get in the real estate game because they're not accredited, from a regulated body, of course. Like why is that, that should, to me, shouldn't be the case. If they whether it's a test or whatever that, how it should be, it should not be tied to a dollar amount, in my opinion.

Joshua Barbin:
14:58

Let's bring it to prudence, right? That is the standard that we all operate under us three for people who don't understand this, like for investors who don't really think about prudence much, prudence is a it's like this, like reasonable man. If imagination reasonable man who does reasonable things, I have to try to convince the s e c or my regulators that what I'm doing is prudent. And I think, but if you look at trust law it, basically says there's no assets that are imprudent. There can be imprudent decisions, but there's not, generally speaking, there's not any asset in itself that is imprudent to use. It's is over-leverage or cons over concentration, potentially imprudent. Yeah. That, probably is, and that's where I think it does come back to asset allocation is the big question. Not necessarily what investment is prudent or imp prudent. I'll put the devil's advocate for a second for the s e c. When you open up the private markets though, first of all, it's harder to get disclosure, so it is harder to know actually what you're dealing with. The second thing, there's just such a swath, right? There's such a swath of possibles where in your publicly traded markets, you've weeded it out to if you're not doing, especially you're not doing penny stocks or something like that, it's like a fair, it's like a more narrow pool. So I'd say those are your big risk if you open up the accredited investor role to everybody that now choosing becomes a lot harder. And now I have much less information potentially.

Stoy Hall:
16:33

Yeah, I agree. I, there needs to be a rule. It just needs to be where more people can participate. Even with the new accreditation rule, reg D rules opened a little more too to allow more non-accredited investors. So they're trying to do a little bit of a Yeah.

Joshua Barbin:
16:51

Like for startups and stuff that you get like that Reg A during the Obama administration also, so you can now do crowdfunding. Like you can do that even it's a non-accredited. Exactly. But there's a limit on

Stoy Hall:
17:00

how much you can do. Yeah. And those, got upped, don't quote me, it used to be 35, I think now it's up towards a hundred. So like they've opened it right through that reggae. That way they can't control it. And I'm glad we're moving in that direction.

Joshua Barbin:
17:15

But you still can't do pre i p o with

Stoy Hall:
17:17

Exactly right there. There's a lot of limitations still. But that's, my thoughts

Joshua Barbin:
17:22

on Yeah. What's interesting about that also, just one more thing is that a lot of companies are staying private longer. Yeah. Impossible Foods, for example. Looks like a pretty, pretty cool idea Cool company that I'm, sure people would like to at least speculate with if they could, but it's just they're still private. Yep. And Ripple's been private for 10 years I think. That's a long life cycle that you just don't have an opportunity to be involved in that market. Yeah, it's interesting. It is. I, can see both sides of that argument a little bit. and crypto might even come into this space as well. Yeah. They really

Stoy Hall:
17:59

might come in that argument. I think they, will. Like ultimately my gut says that's where they're gonna go lean towards They already have it there. They, to the accredited Yeah. Space. It's the easiest route for them to, start to wean this thing out. Unless they create a whole different crypto rule and stuff, which would be crazy. But it'd be interesting. Here's,

Joshua Barbin:
18:23

a little bit more on that ripple itself, others, the s c even has said on some like Ethereum and Bitcoin that it's a commodity, right? Yeah. There's nothing to stop me, even as an uncredited investor, to go and speculate with commodities futures. Correct. I'll lose money almost every time, but there's nothing to stop doing it So it, it may go under commodities regs and remain on I think what they're distinguishing right now are, they're trying to distinguish and use Ripple as like the base case for this. is to say that there's certain projects that are more like securities, there's certain that are more like commodities. Bitcoin's already got dec like decisiveness, right? That it's a commodity. That all the others are pretty much

Stoy Hall:
19:03

so up for graphs. Yeah. That tracks Any thoughts on accredited accreditation rule?

Lisa Grefe:
19:11

No. I think I see both sides too. Like I think it makes sense to have some money to be able to play with and decide where you want to go and, then I see where you want more opportunity and access for other people to be able to have that. I think maybe they're trying to strike a balance with that. Can they go lower in income and things like that? Potentially. But I, fall on the, I think you need to have some guardrails. I fall on the, some regulation I think is important when there's no regulation. It's just a freeway of. craziness.

Stoy Hall:
19:51

Yeah,

Joshua Barbin:
19:52

Yeah. And one more thought. Thanks Lisa for kind of sparked something in my, this comes down to my philosophy generally about investment advice. I actually, there's a guy named Ashman Chak, he manages the, he wrote the aspirational investor manages Jim Simon's hedge fund. Like he's the portfolio manager. But anyways, he created this, what he called a wealth allocation strategy. He said basically like the prudent rule, basic narrows you into the stock market or bond market. The market portfolio. And he said the problem with that is that people are much less, are much more risk averse than the market portfolio. and they also wanna seek opportunities to speculate, to gamble like they want to take big risks, or the problem with the market portfolio will never make you rich, like in the terms of rich. You cannot become rich off the market. That's just my perspective, and I'm not saying that some investments couldn't make you rich, but generally, if you can go on the stock market, build a diversified 30 plus stock portfolio or bonds, you never will become rich off of that. You can build a long-term comfortable lifestyle with that investment. Unquestionably, that will succeed almost every time. But what it won't do is won't make you rich and it won't protect you if you have a reallys. if you, have liquidity needs or you're just afraid of the market portfolio whip you around like a and it's just Bill and you gotta be able to accept that. So what he's, he tried to do with his strategy was say, I'm gonna build a safety bucket. Use cash, gold short term bonds, whatever. I'm gonna build a middle bucket. This is my market portfolio. I'm gonna build a, wealth bucket where I can take aspirational risk that might actually make me wealthy. That's the philosophy I brought into my firm as well. That's my way I'm gonna justify it if I've ever pressed on prudence that this is a prudent strategy depending on somebody's goals. Now, if they told me I have no desire to become rich. I was like, get the heck out of X rrp because you think I'm gonna go broke. You're gonna make some big money. But that's it. And that's like starting a business as well. 95% of business go owners go. but people still love starting businesses, even though the odds are so stacked against them. It's because it could produce something that produces a higher return than your market return over the long term. Yeah.

Stoy Hall:
22:15

Yeah. And that, leads us into the meat of our conversation about the emotional and psychology and the mindset of inherently as humans, that's what we want. We feel that's what we want and feel to do, right? Ultimately is either take on those risks or figure it out, dip our toe, all of those things that in our side builds can build rich wealth quickly or over time. So let's get into that a little bit. So this conversation started because I had tweeted out, most people have an unhealthy relationship with money that drives their emotions and other relationships. I said, prove me wrong. But wealth building is 90 per 90% positive money mindset. And your first tweet was maybe the inverse. Most people have an unhealthy relationship with their emotions that drives their relationship with money. And then, my last, or not my last response, but my response that then got us into talking about this would be maybe, but emotions and behavior change with a healthy money relationship. Not sure that the inverse is completely true. So that's where we're at with that. Let's, dive more into that. So what were

Lisa Grefe:
23:24

your, oh, now there's three people. So there's gonna be a

Stoy Hall:
23:27

side maybe, and now, maybe a side over a third. Maybe there's a third. Maybe

Lisa Grefe:
23:31

there's a third perspective. I don't know. There's

Joshua Barbin:
23:33

It's a, we'll get a four

Stoy Hall:
23:34

slides, right? We could have just went to and did spaces. Maybe this thing could have got really buck wild. But talk me through and, talk everyone through your, side, your point of view initially in that conversation and why is this? Yeah, initially,

Joshua Barbin:
23:48

I think that's a good point. Because like I think through that thread, you showed me the other side of that coin that made a lot of sense as well. I think it is a two-sided coin, I think money is partially like culture and belief around it, like shapes a big part of it. But the, I guess the initial argument, and that's basically what you were saying. My, I think I took the other side of it maybe just for fun, but I think the side of it I was taking was if, you're a mo, emotions are not in a good place it's going to lead to your money decision making and potentially in negative ways. Which I think just to try to nuance that a little bit, basically you could say if you have a good belief system around money, that it will lead to healthy emotions. That was what you were saying. I was saying, if you don't have healthy emotions internally, healthy mindset just around life, then it's gonna affect your money. Even if you do good with. I was thinking of the rich person who's just not happy or we, I use an example of fear on there. Like people get afraid that this is the, response I gave you is people are afraid of running outta money, and that drives'em to work more, not take enough risk, and then become unhealthy in other areas. Yeah I, don't know. I think the way that I was, I put it into two questions like, why are you afraid of running outta money? That's where I would start with that conversation. Or maybe this is the point I was making is what are you afraid of? Those are the questions I might start with, which I think are more just emotional health questions rather than money questions, or maybe they're emotional health questions first, and then money.

Stoy Hall:
25:50

Any, thoughts yet? Oh, yeah. I have a lot of

Lisa Grefe:
25:52

thoughts, Okay. Any thoughts you want? I was waiting for your

Stoy Hall:
25:55

side. Oh I'm, I got mine. Okay. I'm here. but go with yours. Since this, you're the third party in this, combo.

Lisa Grefe:
26:05

I think I have two, two baby girls. One in, one in three. And emotions are really high in my three-year-old right now. And she's building all these different things, ver building different systems, different emotions. We, try to label them, are you scared? Are you happy, are you sad? And I, personally think that's the foundation. And then there's other things that come with it over time. So I'm on the side of you're building. You need to build these emotions over time. Healthy, unhealthy, money starts coming in. and where it gets crossed is the money story. Like we always talk about what's your earliest money story? And that travels with you throughout your life and it builds and it shows up in different ways. How you handle money, how you save, how you spend with your partner, all of those things intertwine. So I think money gets intertwined really early, but I think emotions are there from the start. Even now, Maggie, my one year old where she's starting to be like frustrated, we think it's frustrated. She's like stomping her feet in her fists and we're like, are you frustrated? And she's nods your head yes. So I think, I personally think the emotions are there. Money gets intertwined and then it stays with you and builds in different ways that you'll see later.

Stoy Hall:
27:38

Very good point. In the, in my whole background of why of this, right? We, just went through it with one of our v i p sessions in her trauma. I've had a lot of childhood trauma. But we are so far removed from a society that is financially educated, both emotionally in just financially that everything that happens is entwined with that. So kids' emotions, some of it's genetic. Your genetics can be changed by your stress. Your stress is changed by money. You have gotten that passed down from how many generations down? To what degree does that start or stop, right? Our children, they feel our stress and most of our stress comes from money. Even if we control our emotions, they can sense stress that has been proven. So if we are not taken care of, cuz we haven't took care of our childhood trauma, which came from our grandparents, our great-grandparents or whatever, because they were never financially educated correctly, then we are inherently always gonna be passing that down until we can buck that whole entire system. And so as we get older, we rely on that trauma. Society doesn't do us city justice. Our financial education or education system doesn't do as justice cuz they're not teaching it. Everything, when you watch a movie media, all of that inherently is driving more of that negative mindset. And then our emotions with everything in life act in more to that. And so that's where I get with it is I'm going back very, long ago when it comes to the financial education and money route because now it's been rooted into us no matter what. Can you live life today without money? No. No, you can't. Back a hundred years ago, 50 actually probably. But back a hundred years ago you could. So our life now is so intertwined. It is in our fibers that we don't even know if our children's emotions are being driven from our own emotions that we have derived. But where did that start from? And so to change that whole narrative, we gotta focus on money mindset and money education. So we can start a generation off taking care of themselves, both mentally and physically with money, which is also, there's mental health in there too. But we are now in a generation where we can take care of mental health and take care of the money mindset all at the same time. And if they're not taking care of at the same time, one's gonna always do this with each other. That's

Joshua Barbin:
30:14

my point. Let me throw some counterpoint in here. I think where, maybe I started the thread from and, I'm gonna come back to it here, is think about this weird statistic that most people can't pass generational wealth. I'm talking, you're really wealthy. None of you guys deal with some really wealthy and they most struggle with passing generational wealth. What's the big reason? It's not money education necessarily. It's communication. It's just poor family communication. It's not a money thing necessarily. It's bad communication. Here's another example. And I, would like to explore the root of that. Like why is that communication bad, even when the money's good? The other example that I have been, it's like personal to me and the people that I work with it's, I think a lot of people are really excited about like the X R P thing because they really do expect that they're gonna get a lot more money than they put into it. They really do. And it's that's un undecided at this point. We'll see what happens, but I've really been harping on people to keep your head on a swivel, understand that this is not gonna make you happy. If even if you get more money, like it's gonna be happy for a moment, it's gonna be like crazy happy for a moment. You get a lot more money but then it goes away. Why do lottery winners up go broke? Terrible, right? They end up terrible. They end up court, they hate it. Their emotions like end up in a lot worse place and they didn't have money. So maybe I'm taking this a little bit different direction than I think maybe your original point. It's like the education is important. Nobody's gonna di disagree with that and I, and sometimes people make really bad decisions just based on bad educa education, but I think sometimes people also just make bad decisions out of an emotional unhealthiness that they think money is gonna solve. And then it shows up that it doesn't and it leads. And you can even see this when people were born into money where money was just baseline and they have bad relationships. they see their money as a burden. They don't have they maybe drug problems or whatever it is. And I, don't think that's necessarily these people have the best family offices and they still are having these issues around money. They're different issues, but they're still issues. And it's I think potentially, I guess this is maybe the point is that the issues are just like big. The big thing like this one I'm trying to work with my clients on is and the people that I work with, it's get your mind off the money a little bit. Like you gotta stay focused here, like what's important, family's important. Like building that strong communication is important. Getting in a healthy space, I think then managing money should become a little bit easier. Now there's an education part where you just don't know and you do stupid stuff. That's another thing. But I feel like the first is more important than the second. And that, and maybe it's just for fun sake, but yeah.

Stoy Hall:
33:17

It is right. Ultimately. And in your conversation there, you were talking about money as in money itself. I'm talking about your relationship with that money. A lot of rich people have a negative money relationship anyway. They have the money. It's a baseline. It's a burden That's a negative money relationship. And that comes down to, for me, comes back to education. If I have been educated to understand how things work, how they change, or could change your emotions, now I have something, some tool to control or know what my emotions are gonna go into a situation. How do

Joshua Barbin:
33:56

rich people, how do they end up in that state you just talked about there, where they, make money, obviously made a lot of money, but they have a negative like mindset about like how does that even happen?

Stoy Hall:
34:08

Money controls people, right? Money controls people. It has since it's like keeping up with the Jetsons, that type of philosophy, right? And that's en rooted where that came from. Good lord, who knows? But when you are rich, not wealthy, right? Those are different. When you are rich, it's all about money. It's all about More money More money. I don't care how much I spend more money, because that means I'm better than you, right? Where that's completely negative, right? And money is controlling their life. It's those other people that figure it out and are wealthy. Whereas I control my money. I dictate what things happen and how they off and how we

Joshua Barbin:
34:51

operate. What's, the pathway. And Lisa, I'm gonna see the wheels turning over there. Yes, I did too.

Stoy Hall:
34:56

Did you see that?

Joshua Barbin:
34:56

You could feel it. So what's the pathway to like making that shift from rich to wealthy? Like how does that actually happen on a practical level with a real human being?

Stoy Hall:
35:08

Oh, you asking me that? You had, your

Lisa Grefe:
35:10

wheels were turning inside. I was The wheels were turning on the other. So you, I think you guys are like getting into the spiritual space. I'll be honest. It's like this inner, the inner work you need to do with yourself to be okay with who you are, where you are, and then also make those decisions to make changes in your life. If you're not where you wanna be. You may not be where you wanna be living your career money with a partner. You may not be happy with that. And it's it's a lot of inner work and I think there's some education part to it that there's the knowledge part, but then there's the time you gotta take on yourself to do that. Now Stoy and I are athletes. I don't know. Josh, did you play any sports? No big deal. I'm no. No big deal. No big deal. but like a lot of the mental work before the game there was a lot of prep put in before the game, practice put in, before the game. And people have their own ways of doing it. And you hear about meditation, you hear about taking vacation, going to Hawaii, still like to go to Hawaii, but there's just a lot of stuff you gotta do personally, I think, to move forward. And money is intertwined with everything. I still think the emotions are coming first though. That's, gonna, as the more we get into this conversation, I'm gonna, I'm going on the emotion side.

Stoy Hall:
36:48

By just how we're born. Obviously, emotions come first. Like you don't get, you don't get born with a dollar bill and under understanding of knowledge dropping dollar bills on the baby. It's from that time that you understand what money is that you then it's super entwined and there's no way back. What age that is? I, have no idea. What do you mean? No way back. So as soon as you understand and learn what money is you are, you're gonna have an emotional attachment already right there. Unless your family, hopefully your parents have done what you just said, that prep work before you get into the game is when you understand what money is, you're in the game. Most people never understand that they're in the game of, that. Like they, they just never had prep work, never practiced. All of a sudden they're thrown into a game that they cannot understand. Now they're sinking, they're floating in, and hopefully they learn it right? Or hire an expert like us three to help them through that. But as soon as you get in the game and you don't know the rules or how to operate that, then you just snowball from there. And then the emotions and all that tie into that. But that's where I would go with it is when, are you in the game? When does that start? And that starts when your knowledge of what money is and how it works somewhat in your life. That's when the game is. Have you done enough prep work or has your parents do done enough prep work for you when you get in that game? And so back to your question, Josh, you had asked what is something practical that people can do? To our own horns hire professional. Obviously we can help you through all that situation had put that out there, right? Okay, go for is an alternative ifp.com. Go black man.com. Okay. We'll get all that outta the way. But back to your point, Lisa, is they need to sit down and just figure out what money means to them. I think we ask that all the time with our clients is what does that root mean? What does money mean to you? and does it run, your life? Go ahead.

Joshua Barbin:
38:49

This is a question, I think it might support your point a little bit here, Lloyd which is can you have an emotionally healthy household that doesn't have like good money com communications? I almost feel like I grew up in that sort of household a little bit now my parents are awesome. Love my parents, like they were great parents. We didn't talk about money a lot though, and some probably stuff I had to work through just like habit wise and like thinking around money, probably maybe some negative stuff. Even though generally speaking like I feel really emotionally healthy and got raised in a way to make me emotionally healthy and like healthy communication in our family and ability to talk. And so we don't have perfect by any means, but. It was good. But generally I will say that there wasn't a lot of talk about money. We didn't talk about it a lot.

Lisa Grefe:
39:47

Yeah. Which has its own, ways to show up later, right? Like you just said. Yeah. But you have, I think you can be, you can have healthy relationships and you can have something that's still bothers you. It has an itch it's like you can have a real 90% good and the 10% you're still working through, whether it's money or something else.

Stoy Hall:
40:14

Yeah. Let's be real we're, professionals that we tell everyone it's, a lifelong journey in the wealth building. This isn't like all of a sudden X RRP goes to a million and you're set for life and you have no more issues. That's not how this works. This is an ongoing, always an ongoing situation. But I mean to the whole point of money, mindset is in the things that we wanna push to clients the most is. majority of all of the issues are in, it's mentally related, it's psychology. It's, that's the root of who we are and what you need to lean on professionals for. Yes, there is still the strategic ways of getting investments and doing all that. That's fine. But I believe our industry's changing more towards the fact that we need to help people on that level way more than we need to open up a brokerage account or a Roth ira, right? Because that's, just the, means to what we have. But if they don't understand and get that on the front side, then no matter what we do on the backside is not gonna even make them wealthy, healthy, happy, or any of that. And they might end up screwing up the whole plan because they made that emotional decision and we didn't address that situation.

Joshua Barbin:
41:27

Let me jump into this thought real quick. I think. part of it is people's general belief about money. I think what I've seen is a lot of times it's really negative and I don't understand that. That's part of been an education process. I to, again, to your point, like part of that has been an education process. I think there's some cultures and people that do better at this than others. Part of it could be, if you like, people who have money, typically they're kids, like they can develop, not always, but I'd say on a higher percentage. They develop a little more healthy mindsets around it. But I, like to come back to that core around money and what does that really mean to me? I think for me, just personally in this journey I've, narrowed it down to money really is connection. Money is connection in relationships, and you can leverage that in a business life and a family life. It's, the relationships are important no matter where you go. This is the security part of it. Sure. But at the end of the day, it's. like this whole system of money, this economy that we might like. What is it really? Money is great because it connects people, it brings people together. Like it gives us the incentive to come on here and talk to each other and to add to the conversation, add to the human experience or whatever you want to call it. Again, coming to the spiritual side of it a little bit, I think there's some negative cultural, maybe it's Western, I don't know, maybe it's like Catholic, Christian something. Like maybe it's mindsets have come down like generationally around money that are not, maybe not the healthiest, that like I think money is a pretty great thing. If, it's put in its context and what it can bring to your life, which I think is better relationships at the end, more relationship more of that. And that's why I keep trying to talk to people within the X L V community about, it's you've gotta turn this from like an investment that can go way up into this is my family, this is my life, this is the things that I want to accomplish in the world. This is what this actually means. It's not about a return on investments, it's that relevant. This is about you. How do you convert that into what actually matters? I think that's just a side of this conversation that needs to be had. Absolutely.

Stoy Hall:
43:46

And, if all the lottery winners had that mindset, where would their families be? Where would the world be really in regards to that? I, think you nailed it there. Is and I saw this, quote today and I don't know where it was, but it really resonates even more so now is your network equals your net worth, right? Your, community, your relationships is what? your net worth's about that's your true wealth. Because that's, what life's for. That's what humans want. We want interaction. We wanna be able to communicate. We want the community feel, we want family. That doesn't mean I have$6 trillion. That has nothing to do with the dollar.

Lisa Grefe:
44:32

People that live the longest they've done research on this there's, some food they're eating. But two, they're also part of a community. There's a sense of belonging and a sense of family and friends, all of that. And I think that's important. And it, again, it's intertwined with money's intertwined with family community. You talked about purp. I'm thinking about purpose has been popping in my head. What's my purpose here on, on planet Earth in my short amount of time? What can I do with my time, with my money? That can make a difference. And I think those conversations are much more interesting to me when I'm working with clients.

Joshua Barbin:
45:18

Yeah. Yeah. And there's a technical side of it too, like story said, but I, also want to bring up like what is the most important metric? What is the most important thing that we're working towards? Is it the maximize the network worth? Is that, or is it maximize return, on investment, or whatever it is. I really think that's a pretty easy argument against that. And I think there's even data that would support this argument that your goal probably shouldn't be to become the wealthiest person in your neighborhood or community. And it's always gonna be somebody wealthier anyways. Just deal. But I think there's a space to say to start your money conversation really starts at okay what, type of relationships do you want to have in your life? And I think that's where it does come back to the emotions, questions where it's A lot of people I don't even think can picture themselves having good relationships. And it's sad to say that, but I think it has to be said that like they don't think in terms of relationship, like you said earlier, money drives'em, they're driven by money. They cannot convert the money thinking into what actually will make you happy at the end of the day. And I think that's the sad, that's a sad thing that I, don't know if that's educatable, if that's, if you can become aware of that and change that, I think you should be able to, but I wonder if it's education there or if that's more of a, like Lisa's said earlier, almost like a spiritual thing there.

Stoy Hall:
46:46

Yeah. I, believe anything not anything, but I believe that can be learned. But if, it's created in the right environment, right from you're being born and your parents and through schooling and all of that, because at some point, like those people learned something, right? I, believe the money thing is a learned, more learned issue than it is a fundamental like genetics. I don't think people are born with the gene to all of a sudden become a billionaire. And if they are, then we need to do research on that. I, just believe that those people have been the negative ones have been rooted in a community or growing up in a way that didn't allow the other side. And those that are truly living wealthy, which is happy, they might not even be millionaires, but they're good in life. That's true. Wealth have been able to be raised or taught in a different loving community. You take a lot of what we're talking about is probably the western community. Let's be real, it's western world. But you take India or Japan where there was people living in well under their hundreds and are happier in hell, but they're poor. Poor, right from a money standpoint, but are wealthy in life because of however they were raised, and the community that's around them, that's different than someone who was put into a negative standpoint. All their family cared about was money. They went to school just to learn how to make money. And now they're deeply rooted into this thing where money is end all, be all win, really. It's, relationships.

Joshua Barbin:
48:22

Yeah. That's a pretty sad story that you gave about the person who's just money is end all, be all. It really is sad to me. That makes me sad. I don't think that sounds happy to me. No. Not that, but to your point also, like I think there and, something I said earlier, which is like the spiritual slash financial is pretty separated in the western world. It's not a, it's not a. it's almost like a dichotomy. Money is the root of all evils thrown around a lot. Yeah. It's not necessarily in the Bible, but it's, that's, it's there. That's thrown around a lot. We all have heard that. And it's funny because the people of the Bible, the Jewish people, I'm just gonna go here, they, I personally have studied their culture quite a bit and, I am very fascinated by it. And, but I think they have super healthy mindsets around money. Not as, you can't speak for a whole culture, of course not. But like their religious teachings around money don't view it as a negative thing. It kind, they put it into the context of, it's a positive for the community to have more interaction. And there is a lot of like charitable side of, their religion as well. Like making sure that you do take care of the poor and making sure that you are a generous person. Like it's, more than what I've experienced in Christianity. and that is what drives the Western world more is Christianity than Judaism. They both have their influence. But I do think that, that's interesting that in my study as an outsider and not Jewish, so I don't, I obviously don't have the full picture, but what I've seen in some of their teachings is that they have put a more positive mindset around what it means to make money from that almost community perspective of money. Just gonna drop that. I know. That's touchy subjects

Stoy Hall:
50:15

today. No I I was just thinking I'm just thinking of all the negative connotation that people say about the Jewish community, like their penny pinchers, right? All of that stuff and, you just part

Joshua Barbin:
50:27

of most generous

Stoy Hall:
50:27

people in the world, right? When you started like laying that out. I started just going through it all and I'm like, no, they care more about community and relationships and that's where all their decisions, and most of that's driven. Some outsiders, like the western world would see that as penny pinching when the others, when they're actually truly is giving back as much as possible. But they're not just spending money to spend it they're, doing it through their relationships in their community. And I, believe we all can learn a lesson there take care of others and your life will be just good. I think we can agree there.

Joshua Barbin:
51:05

Definitely. Yeah. And, I don't want to speak on that totally because I don't, I'm not authority on this. Like I read a good book about this, but it's like Daniel Lapin, he's a Jewish guy and, some of it I like, some of it I don't, but I think he was a rabbi and he, so I'm some of that I'm pulling from his book and saying I thought he did have some good ideas about like how Judaism positions, and I think you can pull this out of religion and pull this into like practicality into a non-religious set setting. What he said in there is you have to. get this mindset in your head that money is good and money and earning money is good. And, you have to see where, like how that goes. Because I think that like to your point at the beginning, it's like we get educated with these negative ideas and some of that is actually just a negative belief about if I make money, I'm a negative person. Or like making money is not good. We see it all in Hollywood. The bad guy's always the business guy. But it's like there's a real positive side to earning money as well and I think that gets lost a lot in the popular culture. Yeah, I agree.

Lisa Grefe:
52:16

I know we all should be saying money is good from age five on up and keep talking about it. Let's just be positive about it. We do so much good with money in your communities and I think we get as is popular culture, you get caught up in the what, what's happened in the negative or. there's some kind of story of somebody did something not good with money, and that's what everyone remembers. But there's so much good happening and you do need money to, do a lot of that. Good.

Joshua Barbin:
52:46

Yeah, absolutely. That's an awesome point. And, I'll bring this back to my household, like my personal experience on this one. Like, I said, I had a super healthy family relationship, but one thing we didn't talk about and didn't do a lot of is like at five years old talking about money. That just didn't, that conversation did not happen. And then I'm not gonna knock my parents for it. They're awesome. I have more realistic perspective now being a parent. But it, I think that's more of a cultural thing for us in the western world that like, that would make a big difference. I think to story's original point when he posted this thread, it's if you're having that conversa, you start developing that healthy mindset around how money is a force for good in the world, and how you can use it as a force for good in the world if you use it correctly. if you have that conversation with your kids you just move them into a different arena of what becomes possible in their lives.

Stoy Hall:
53:41

Absolutely.

Lisa Grefe:
53:42

Which gives me great hope Yes. For the

Stoy Hall:
53:45

future. Yeah. I and I, yeah. The little ones I, do too. And I, it has, and yes, selfishly, it's because of our industry there, this movement of independent RAs, ra space in general movement of moving towards these conver conversations is what we're hearing. A lot of that gives me hope that our industry can really start to make a movement to help people as opposed to just charging a u m, getting'em investments in. Here you go. There's a lot more onus on us, I believe, which means yes, the CFP board and all those needs to up our education when it comes to that side. But I'm really excited for our industry to really help more. So now the, flip side of that is people need to be open and willing to. Take that on. Going through that process, we've seen it a lot with our v i P day, and Josh and I are aware, our v i p day is for business owners. It's five and a half hours intenses in the office, or one-on-ones basically, of going through everything and we root through as much trauma as we can, is what gets pulled out. And it's exhausting, it's tiresome, but it's, once you break through that, then you can come to light with what's going on. And I believe Where do you start

Joshua Barbin:
55:00

that conversation? What, is the, like, how do you even start? That sounds like a bear of a conversation. Oh, it is an awesome one to have. Yeah. Like where do you start?

Stoy Hall:
55:10

Lisa alluded to it. What's your first remembrance of what money is Exactly. And then, and it's all childhood related. That's where it comes from. And then it, then they just keep going. And then it just takes off from there. But what's your first memory of money? Good, bad, or indifferent? And then, you just discuss like, why was it good? Why was it bad? and then we just keep layering those questions of even today when you buy that cup of coffee or you go to the grocery store, when you see that bill, what's that emotion that you feel? Is it anxiety? Is your chest like closing up? Guess what? You probably have a negative money mindset. Or is it like I'm, buying groceries for my family. I can't wait to go cook. Like I, it doesn't even register. Now you control your money. That's those easy questions that people can ask themselves. You said easy questions, easy to ask

Lisa Grefe:
56:02

yourself. I didn't say to answer. Easy to easy to ask, not easy to

Joshua Barbin:
56:05

answer. Very hard to answer. Yeah, but, and it's

Lisa Grefe:
56:08

such a moving, oh, go ahead. No, you go ahead. I would say it's a moving target. Like we've seen you, have a good five years and then something happens and then it's brought you right back to negative mindset or you're you've got a new job and you're making more money. And so there's all these different factors at play and different stages of life at play.

Joshua Barbin:
56:28

what does a healthy mindset around money look like? What do you guys, what, like what have you seen that in like practice where somebody really develops like a really healthy mindset around money and then what is the end game like, what does that look like? You got an answer?

Stoy Hall:
56:45

You go first. Okay, then I'll go. One I don't think there's an end game. Okay. Ultimately, it's something that we're always working towards. Just every relationship, just like your health. It is something that is an ongoing battle. What does it look like? I've seen it for extended periods of time here and there. What does it look like? It looks like that person is just happy. They're focused on their relationships, really, that's all they talk about. There's not a lot of negativity going on in their life, right? There's not a lot of car accidents, not a lot of health problems. There's not a lot of job changes. That person is just living life and some people might say that person is. Poor or whatever, but that when I've seen it, is they're happy. They don't even really discuss in terms of the actual dollar. They just know that this is the next movement to get to where they want to go. For for example, one of our clients just last week, I love the hell out of her, but she's Hey I, need some more in my savings and I gotta pay this bill. I'm like, cool, we'll move the money and, it's done. It was never a question of, do I have enough? What's going on? Am I gonna survive? It's just, yeah, this is what needs to happen, okay, we're gonna go forward with it. And there's no, you don't f you don't see or feel that just wait. You can see it in people. You don't see that weight sitting on them. When you discuss or say the word money,

Lisa Grefe:
58:16

the visual of a weight, I'm thinking about like the heaviness. You can tell a he sense of heaviness. I think with people when you're having conversations, you can tell a more, I would say light. Like more just more flexible, adaptable in their thinking, which goes back into the mindset there's the growth mindset, just being able to adapt to different situations and emotionally. So this is where it is like circles full circle for me. Like emotionally healthy, physically healthy, like all of those things with the money intertwined emotionally. They're doing well, but it doesn't have to be perfect. And I think that's where we get into some challenges. I, know I have a perfection perfectionism issue. no I do at all. So I everything's had to be this certain way, perfect this way, but it life doesn't go that way. So I, still think you can be in a really good space and not everything's perfect or not. Everything's where you want it to be. And you can still strive for things, but it doesn't have to be absolutely

Stoy Hall:
59:20

perfect.

Joshua Barbin:
59:21

Absolutely. I'll tell you guys like. and this is a lot of the people that I work with. I'm not the only one here. It investing in XRP has, been a, grueling investment. Especially because a lot of people, including myself are, more concentrated than is prudent I learned. And they won't change the mind on it either. My

Lisa Grefe:
59:45

new, my word of the day

Stoy Hall:
59:46

is prudent. Yeah.

Joshua Barbin:
59:47

I'm gonna go with prudent. Yeah, prudent mind. It's the law. But I, will say that it has it's tough to maintain an emotional stability. Not even just stability, but like positivity when you are experiencing money challenges. And I'll just say from our end it's been tough. This last market has been tough. The investment hasn't gone anywhere yet. It could go to Zebra, so it puts an extra stress on there and I think it's good to have experience what people really do experience. But I think I'm just curious as you guys thoughts, like when you're dealing with somebody who's not there yet obviously there's prudent actions you can take to get there, right? But it's like how, do you navigate the space where maybe you don't have all the security and all the where you maybe just didn't earn enough to, get there? Or how do you navigate that emotionally? Or do you just need to, get better at earning money get in a better place? There's

Stoy Hall:
1:00:57

also, there is always earn more money, right? We, say this a lot is we want them to put that weight on us as much as possible. Like conversation we just had this week about buying a home. right? They came to us first. Not the bank, not the real estate, none of that because they needed to know are they good or are they not, right? Yeah. Now mathematically everyone can figure that out themselves. Really, it's basic math at the end of the day. But they wanted, they needed to. They need more of that emotional support of like reliance and like getting it off their decision making. And that's what we tell them to do is like not just cuz we have the experience and can see it all and aren't as emotionally involved. That is part of it, but also is if you're not, if you are personally not healthy, ready, and a hundred percent at all of that, then put it on someone that you can trust and it'll help you balance that out. It'll take some of that weight off to lift you up. So now you can see a little more clearly. Maybe you can understand and learn a little bit more, and then when maybe it's time and you're like, Hey, I'm good. Okay, the weight's back on you, or it just allows you to grow as a person more because you aren't weighted down right. Some of that weight is lifted. So I can stand taller, I can do all of these things as opposed to I'm getting crushed. I can't do it right. That I can't do it mindset because there's too much going on, too many decisions, too much weight. That's how we we, tell clients, Hey, put it on us. That's what we're here for. I think

Lisa Grefe:
1:02:28

another perspective is yes, we can take on their weight, but what do they need to be doing individually or as a couple to continue to move through this emotional space? And I also think it's important for them to take, have some kind of action where they can build momentum and feel like they can make positive change. So for me, I, we've given clients small steps like, yes, you have this goal of this in five years, but what can we do today or this week or next month to start getting there. And I think some of those small action steps, Can also help with the emotional, like I'm moving forward, I'm doing something and you gotta have that for me, you gotta have both kind of happening. Cuz if you don't, you're missing that feeling. You need them to capture,

Joshua Barbin:
1:03:22

I think one of the words you said earlier, just to bring this conversation full circle in a lot of ways too, was adaptability. It's not like one of the most like obvious emotions that we even think about. Like in terms of I just name an emotion. Like you would never say like adaptability not be high on the list at least. But I think I totally agree with what you said earlier was like how important that emotion is. And I'm not sure if that is an educa, I'm so said. I think, yeah, there is learning that can be done in any area. So yeah, if you don't, if you're not very flexible, you got I think with this journey with money, you're gonna go super secure. If you're not flexible. I would go super secure, try to do very risk averse things. But if most people don't do that so having that adaptability, that flexibility not only just a change with the swinging markets and stuff, but also life, just life changes. Everybody goes through those and they, even if you have a lot of money, you can't shield yourself from that. Stuff like that. Adaptability and how it relates to your money, I think is just, is

Stoy Hall:
1:04:32

huge. Yeah. Agree. Yeah, we can wrap this up, but I will say one thing about all the things that we did. When you're doing things positively, you're adapting, you're in that momentum. There's something to say about luck that the ball bounces in your favor a little more often, or you feel like it

Joshua Barbin:
1:04:50

does. I said that earlier. I was wondering if you thought that was causal. Like when you, were talking about the. the person who's like in that zone and you, said things don't happen that as much as they would happen for maybe somebody else. It's an interesting perspective of Yeah. Getting that vibe that you almost think it's causal.

Stoy Hall:
1:05:10

Yeah. That, that's that whole point. That's for me, spirituality. There is something out there to say that when things are going well, they keep going well, and when things are going shitty, they keep going shitty. They're, to me, that's a part of luck's that we just don't know.

Lisa Grefe:
1:05:25

That's, a universal thing. I, I agree. You bring I'm gonna use a spiritual word. You're bringing stuff into your vortex and then things start rolling. Whichever way you've decided to roll.

Joshua Barbin:
1:05:37

Absolutely. It's an interesting conversation. We'll stay here for one more minute. Okay. The iris call it luck, I'm pretty sure, but yeah, there's all types of different beliefs around it. In the Jewish perspective, it's called mole. You ever heard him say Mazeltov? Just means like good luck, but it's a little bit muzzles, a little bit different. and it's like a universal force and, but they almost, there's almost like these weird guidelines around it. Whether it's true or not is different story, but do some people just get born with bad luck? I guess that's the question, right? Is that, have you seen it? Can you change your luck? Can you control your muzzle? Can you lean into that universal force? Even if you don't, there's no clear guideline on it. If that was available, what, how you would lean into that? Yeah. But if, hypothetically you could, what would you do to lean into that? What would you guys do to lean into that?

Stoy Hall:
1:06:33

I have no idea. So

Lisa Grefe:
1:06:35

I I, personally believe you can lean into that universal force. Okay. But it's like a daily, it's a daily practice where you're it could be visualizing what you're looking for. Money, career, life, everything. Intertwined. It could be writing it down. It could. Saying money is good. Like I believe all those things work cuz I've, seen'em happen in the sports field. I've seen'em happen in other places and I, do a lot of research around that. So I think some of it's a belief in yourself. Can I actually do this? And if I if, this are, if these are some of the action steps I'm taking, is this going to help me? So you have to have some inherent belief that you're gonna be able to make that change and difference in your own self. All right, one more question.

Joshua Barbin:
1:07:21

No, I'm working with you. Sorry. Kidding. Alright. No, I'm sorry. No, you're good. I Go ahead. So I was working with a guy I worked with yesterday and he, we were laying out like battle plans to if effects some people to go up. Like what, would be the actions? Cause the emotion will be stupid, crazy emotions, right? So how do you navigate in that? and after we started talking, just talked through it, he said, yeah, but we're like, I was like, this probably will be completely false by the time we get there but he said, yeah, but we're visualizing like on a battlefield or on a sports field, like a race car driver goes around the track in their mind a million times. Like they can do that. It's I wonder it also just then bring it back to our profession, like working with a financial planner. Does that have an impact in that way as well? Just like by being able to visualize some of these things, does it set anchors into the future as far as what actually the outcome of it as well? I don't know. That's just a weird thing.

Stoy Hall:
1:08:17

No, it's a, that's a great way to leave it and maybe next time we hit upon that more, but I know for a fact that I've seen. From clients working with us before, but we'll leave it at that until next time. Part two, whatever we call it. But Josh, Barbara, thanks for being on and being the first guest of the second season of the Money Mindset series. You can reach out to him on, I know you're on Twitter. What what other socials? We'll get them out there, but you got Twitter for sure.

Joshua Barbin:
1:08:47

Yeah, go. That's the only one I really picked. Okay, fine.

Stoy Hall:
1:08:50

He only Twitter folks. That's it. That's all. That's all him. But we'll blast this out there. We'll make sure to do that. Go ahead and go to alternative p.com. If you're in XRP world, if you just want to pick his brain, I'm sure he's available. Again, reach out to us if you wanna contact them. We are here. But no BS Wealth podcast is around money and your money mindset. This is the root of our podcast and having other guests on here to have these discussions. To hopefully in your life change it or allow you to be like, Hey, I'm good. I wanna move forward with somebody cuz what you guys are saying is great and we can connect you with any fp that you really wanted that fits you. We are here for you. So Josh, thank you again, sir. It's been awesome. Thanks guys.