The first NoBS Roundtable starts swinging

Kristina
0:21

Well then, it's time

Stoy
0:35

Welcome to the first No BS Roundtable. And yes, we're going to hit you very hard to start it. Why not? Why not have this be the most evergreen topic ever? We've got our brain experts, we've got financial therapists, you've got Christine and I, who have mental problems in ourselves. And as business owners, we're here to, to present a lot of that. As the roundtable goes, we have three main topics that we'll speak about, from both shame to guilt, to feeling paralyzed in life, and each one of our experts is gonna have their little off-the-cuff conversation about it, but then we're gonna just go deeper, a- as deep as we can within this, within this hour. So, um, I'm not introducing everyone 'cause you should know everyone at this point 'cause they're on the collective. If not, you can go ahead and check out No BS Wealth, their whole bio and everything's there. It's gonna be in the show notes. It's also gonna be in the email that, um, comes out as well. So let's dive into it because really the content matters, not me speaking. So the first one topic is, is around shame and the spiral of shame that happens when we talk about not only necessarily money, but that's kind of what we're about, but in life in general. So when I, when I use it as an example is, um, whether it's tax season, whether it's your financials, most of us know what to do, right? We, we know the, the basis of what we need to do to get done. The problem is then we have to choose something, right? Uh, we have to choose to get new tires on our car. We have to choose

How one small money choice spirals into shame

Stoy
2:01

soccer tryouts. We have to choose, um, where our kid goes to play a sport and how much that costs, because that choice then dictates what we can and can't do somewhere else. Then we can't pay that bill or we're late on that bill, or we… And it just keeps spiraling, right? Um, which turns into shame, somewhat of a guilt as well. And so that's where we set the table of those that are out there and you feel that way, right? Whatever your life is, whether it's tax-related, your financial related, your personal relationships, you, you feel the shame and, and I'm here to say you shouldn't. One, a lot of us go through a lot of those situations, but it's there. And so I'm gonna open it up to, to whoever wants to jump on it first. But off the cusp, what's like, what, what does shame spiraling mean to you and, and how do you deal with it in your guys' practice or personally?

Ashley
2:53

Uh, oh, go ahead, Rachel. Yeah

Rachel
2:55

That's fine. Hi, everyone. Um, yeah, I'd say it's, you know, I call it the big S word. It's,

You're comparing your insides to their outsides

Rachel
3:00

I'd say my clients' number one word that they associate with money. And the thing with shame is that it's so private, it's so individual. And I think what a lot of us are doing, I'm in this camp too, is, you know, we're walking around comparing our insides to other people's outsides. And there is, I think a lot of my clients are like, "How is everyone else doing it?" Right? "They look like they have it together." But guess what? Someone also probably thinks the same about you. Like, we put a lot of work in how our outsides are looking and, um, whether that's, you know, lifestyle choices or, or whatever, but it's sort of only one piece of the whole financial puzzle. And so what I work with my clients a lot is, you know, you know your whole financial picture. You only know one slice of theirs, right? How do they all go to Italy for two weeks, right? I don't know. But there's a story there that also you don't know. It doesn't necessarily mean that they're good with money, and that's why they were able to go to Italy for two weeks. So what I do a lot is, like, realizing that what we see in others is just a tiny slice, and it's their external, just as we all do our own external. And the thing with shame is when we keep it really— we keep these thoughts about ourselves, these judgments, these, "I'm not… I should be farther ahead 'cause I'm X years old." And, and we keep this knocking around in this, like, little tiny echo chamber of our own mind, and then that's what creates the shame. "Well, I feel so chaotic about it. It must be my fault." And so I think the f- the first part of my work is, you know, we get to the numbers way down the road. We're really, we're really sitting with an understanding, um, first normalizing that experience, just like you said, Stoy. And, um, you know, I, I think recognizing the parts that you do have right. 'Cause I, I have these different domains I see, uh, with folks' money, and we, we look through it, and usually like one or two need some work, and one or two are pretty well worked out, you know? And so just trying to get a comprehensive picture and just having a really compassionate conversation with a third party, with a professional

Guilt vs shame: the difference that changes everything

Rachel
5:00

like me or the others on this panel, it starts to dispel the sh- the shame pretty quickly

Ashley
5:08

I would, I think I'd like to maybe just, um, take a step kind of back and talk about at least how, uh… I, I love everything, Rachel, that you shared, the comparing our insides to someone's outside. I think that is really, um, I think a wonderful, uh, nugget to kind of take away with. I guess where maybe I'd like to pull back and just offer some, um, thoughts around is what, what I hear is, uh, oftentimes clients interchangeably kind of talking about things, uh, like guilt and, and shame, um, a- and, and comparison. And, you know, that s- story, like listening to you, like those were three just kind of things that come up. And there's a difference actually between all three of them that I think it is worth like naming and identifying here because it's hel- because when we do, it's helpful because we kind of know, uh, maybe what, what to work and wh- what to work with. And so when I, when I think about Guilt, like guilt is more behavior-focused. Um, the thing that I did, um, I did something that was wrong or that I'm not proud of, or I feel badly that I spent money on this and not that. Like, that is, that is a behavior. When we talk about shame, um, at least in the therapeutic like context, shame is more tied to who I am as a person, uh, like my character, what I think about me, um, individually. So, and that can be tied to what I do, right? But shame is, is different than I feel bad that I spent money on th- or, you know, it's different from guilt, and that guilt is I feel bad that I spent money on this. Shame would be more, "I am a bad person. I am bad with money. I, you know, make bad choice." Like, I am bad, right? It's this characterization of, like, who we are, and how we approach, like, navigating and walking through that can be very, can be very different. Um, you know, I think that comparing, uh, so, you know, for those of you familiar with Brené Brown, Brené Brown, like, look, goddess, love her, um, w- would love to be BFFs with her. Um, she talks about, you know, comparison is the thief of joy. I don't actually entirely agree with that, um, because I actually think that on some level comparison can be helpful, healthy, and motivating. Um, and I also think that guilt can be helpful, healthy, and motivating as, as well. What we're talking about, though, is shame, um, and this characterization of I am a bad person, like I am bad, um, and how I think about myself is bad. And so I offer that at least kind of starting out because I think it's important that we– I think it's important that we suss that out because it is, it is, it is different. And so for those, like, listening where you feel like, "You know, I just feel bad about some of the financial decisions that I make. Like, I don't think that I am bad inherently, like, with money or that I am an irresponsible person. But I just think, like, I don't make, like, great choices." Like, that's an important, I think, just, you know, psychological distinction to be able to name, uh, because it– how we then approach it, um, Rachel, as you were saying, you know, kind of there, it can, it can look a bit different.

Tessa
8:44

Yeah, I totally agree with, um, what Ashley is saying, and, and that distinction and that awareness of the distinction is so important, um, especially when guilt is saying, you know, "I made that mistake," but shame is saying, "I am the mistake, and I am fail- failing in that way." Um, and I think it's, you know, different people come to shame for different reasons. Sometimes it's worth, safety, identity, belonging. There's so many different things that really– and it could be a combination of all of them as well. So, um, that awareness I think is so key, and really starting to separate fact from what the mind is just assuming to be fact. Like the company, you know, is having a setback. I'm experiencing a delay. That doesn't mean that I'm failing. It doesn't mean that I'm not capable of moving this forward. Um, so that distinction and being able to do exercises like that really takes a lot of the emotional weight out of the subconscious and bring it into the open where you can actually start to work with it. So I love that.

Kristina
9:50

Yeah, you guys talking is, it's, you know, I'm actually thinking about it from, like, a line of what I do as a marketer, but being a business owner. And I'm having this conversation a lot right now around just finances and the shame that goes behind, like, when you're late on your bills and paying contractors and things like that. And one of the things that I'm noticing most is that transparency is extremely important right now. I'm having a lot of conversations around this topic and, um, the thing that's really shedding light is the transparency. So it's like in those moments when we're feeling that shame, right? I… Shit, I felt it this morning. Like, I was like, "I don't even know we're gonna get on this call." I'm like, "I felt it this morning." And so, um, you know, I'm finding that having these conversations is, is really helping with that. And the more that we can be transparent and talk about the shame, I think is gonna lessen the burden of that shame too. Yeah.

Stoy
10:48

How natural is it? Like, like how normal is it? Normal, right? Quote, unquote, I'm not normal, so that's probably the wrong word. But how natural is it as a human to, to feel shame? Like to,

Why your brain keeps walking the same shame path

Stoy
11:00

to, to go into that spiral more so than the positive side?

Kristina
11:05

I mean, I don't know about you guys, but I think I probably hit that shame factor first before I think about the positives, right? I think it's, I think it's complete human reaction. And now, if you're somebody who doesn't like taking accountability, that's a different story. But I think that, you know, for us, as people who take accountability, who– people who have integrity behind they- what they do, you know, that shame plays a, plays a huge role. And I think that's the first emotion I probably feel when I'm starting to feel any type of way about money or finances or my business as a whole, is that shame.

Ashley
11:41

I think there's a level of conditioning, like, that happens. Like f- you know, when I was practicing more heavily, like, just clinic- like clinically, like, what I would notice is that for those that go to shame quickly, um, there has been a history of conditioning, uh, o- of going there. So I like to explain it, uh… Well, a lot of things is, like, imagine like you're walking in the woods, um, and there's a very clear path. Uh, a, a path that you, you know, could take, um, and you can see it. It's pretty, it's pretty clear. It's v- you don't see brush, like, hanging over. Um, maybe it's even paved. Uh, maybe there's even some guardrail, right? But it's a very clear and obvious path. Um, and, and that's a little bit how, like, our brain works, like, over time, like, from a conditioning. Like, the path that, like, our brain takes over and over and over again, it's gonna make it easy to take, uh, when we come to a situation or a scenario like, you know, "Hey, I messed up," right? "Well, oh gosh, I'm just a bad person. Like, I'm just terrible. I'm just so irresponsible." Like, our brain is naturally just gonna take that very clear path, right? And, and so, and, and that may not be a great thing. Like, it doesn't mean that this is a positive thing. But, like, our brain is going to take certain, certain paths, um, and follow them the more that we do it. The more we walk in the woods, the more we, you know, chop down trees if we're building a new trail, right? It takes a lot of work. It takes a lot of intentionality, and it's not easy. Um, and so going to shame, like moving to shame, to me, for clients, for people who can go there quickly and easily, to me, that's an indication of like, oh my goodness, like you've been going to this place for probably like a while. This is something you've been doing like a long, a long time. Is it normal? Well, yeah, I mean, it's normal in the context of like that person because that's their default. That's like what they're like used to. Is it helpful? Probably not. Uh, but it does make sense, right? Because all behavior like makes sense in context. Uh, and so it makes sense. It may not be helpful. It might be unwanted. Um, but it sounds like that's just part of their human, their individual human like conditioning.

Rachel
13:58

Yeah, and I think whether it expresses as guilt or shame or comparison, you know, we are inherently such social creatures. I mean, the most introvert person is still so social, and we've got all these parts of our brain running this program of like, "Am I safe? Am I safe?" And a big question or big answer behind, "Am I safe?" is, "Am I accepted by the people around me?" And so I think that's the calculus we're just running constantly. Where do I measure up? Not in terms of am I better than, but will I be accepted? Am I doing the same things as the people around me? And so whether, exactly, whether your path goes to shame or guilt or simple comparison, I think it's a lot of us navigating this world as very social creatures. And because money touches, like, everything, well, then there's often that money component of it. But I, I think it's, it's actually like, "Do I fit in?" And I think that's actually going on underneath almost every script in some way. And actually, the even deeper script is am, am I safe? Will I be protected? Will I be accepted by the people around me?

Tessa
15:03

Yeah, I agree. I think, you know, there is this loneliness epidemic that's going on, and it's not only what we think of as physically alone, you know, not having people around you. It's also this sense of maybe I don't belong because I don't have what other people around me have or I should have at my age. Um, and that sense of identity and belonging is so deeply tied to money because it's one of our, you know, survival instincts to make money and, you know, excel in our careers and whatnot. So I think it just goes hand in hand and, um, it's so much bigger than just, "Oh, I'm experiencing shame," or, "I'm experiencing these emotions." It's this is part of what it is to be human and to go through these flows, and we really have to come together as a society, um, and work together 'cause it's affecting all of us.

Stoy
15:54

But how do we– Like, we all do work in this space. Like, we all somewhere touch this to help all of us, right? Um, and the, the part that is always toughest is, one, we keep having these conversations, both one-on-ones with our clients, um, groups, podcasts, articles. And I get a feeling from people that content… Or content. Geez. Engage or, uh, comment on our stuff of, "Yeah, but I can't even get through the door. I can't even open it, crack it a little bit for myself because it's so heavy for me. It is so heavy. I'm so deep in shame that, like, it keeps spiraling that I'm now more shameful for myself to even have to work with a Rachel or an Ashley or do work with Tessa or come to Christina and I just from a financial or marketing perspective." Like, it is so hard and heavy for them that they can't even crack the door open a little bit. From your guys' perspective, give us one thing or whatever thing they can do to at least, like, I don't know, turn the knob a little bit before they try to knock down the door or anything to get them through that heaviness that they're feeling right now.

Ashley
17:04

I would say accepting it, like, first and foremost. Like, just name it and accept it. Uh, and I don't mean that dismissively, like just accept it and, like, that's it. But, like, sometimes we try to fight some- like, to not feel something so hard, um, that it really just exacerbates the feeling. Or if we, you know, we avoid wanting to, and it still lives there. We think if we can just put our head in the sand or, like, just it'll go away soon, or, like, if I just don't think about it, or if I just don't do this or engage in this way, like, I won't feel that. And I, I think that when it comes to change, um, so if we… And I won't go into this because this is incredibly nerdy and people will be very, very judgmental, um, of what I like to read in my spare time. But if we look at, uh, the transtheoretical, like, model of change in terms of change readiness, right? Like, we we can't just, like, live in, in denial here a- and then still expect to make change. Like, we have to be, you know, we can be in this contemplative or pre-contemplative, like, state. Um, but if we can enter into this, like, contemplative state of like, "You know what? Maybe this shame is really holding me back, and I wonder what that might be like. I wonder, I wonder what it might be like if I took some steps. What would those steps be? I really ha- gee, I really hate feeling this way. It's so gosh darn heavy." Like, if we can just, from an acceptance place, just start to even begin to think there, um, it can help create some movement and move us to more of, like, a preparatory state of like, "Gosh, like, I heard this podcast where, like, these four chicks and a dude were talking about shame, and, like, that was really interesting. I don't know if I've thought about it in that way. And oh, like, there's people out there that can work with us. Maybe then I can take some steps." Like, th- there's a process that we move through from a change standpoint, but I, I do think that it starts with first acknowledging and just accepting, like, this is what this is. This is the lay of the land, and I don't like it, and I don't want to be here. But if I can at first at least acknowledge it, then we know how to move through. It's like the book, like, uh, Going on a Bear Hunt. Uh, I don't know, you know, Christina, you've got a little one there, but, you know, um, if we've read the book, like, Going on a Bear Hunt. If not, you should go read it because I feel like it is literally the map of life, of how, like, life happens. Like, you can't go under it. You know, you can't go around it. You can't go over it. You gotta go through it. Uh, and to some degree, like, that's how this is when it comes to making changes, uh, certainly around, like, the emotional end.

Kristina
19:43

I think, uh, oh, sorry. Go right, though. No, go right. So you can go.

Rachel
19:46

Well, I just have to say, Ashley, let's start a book club 'cause I have a feeling our bedside tables look very similar. I'm a big "Stages of Change" fan. I teach it- I am

Tessa
19:54

not alone. Woo-hoo.

Rachel
19:56

No, let's talk. We'll have a whole separate convo about that. Yeah, I, I really agree

Financial trauma is real, and it's treatable

Rachel
20:00

with that, and I think, I think also, like, the being a financial therapist, I re- I really wanna spread the word that financial trauma is a real thing, and it is everywhere, and, and it's worth treating, right? And if you have that kind of, like, nervous system reaction of like, "Hell no," or like, blocks, huge fear, you wanna run for the hills, this is not a cognitive process. This is a physiological, your body feels in danger around the topic of money. So the… It's, it's worth treating. I would even use the word treating, and even– because, yeah, okay, you know what you need to do, sure. But your body perceives all threat as physical threat. So that, that's where I come in, is like, this is, this… We need to have safe, reparative experiences around money because likely, if someone's having the kind of scenario you described, Stoy, like, I'm looking at this from a financial trauma lens. And not to, like, even put it deeper, but, like, to actually validate that, "Yeah, you feel really afraid. Okay." Right? And really validating that, and now we know where we're going, right? That's, that's the direction I would go.

Kristina
21:11

I'm glad you went first, Rachel, 'cause you just made me think of something else too. Um, you know, adding onto what you were saying, actually, not only the acceptance, but I think the understanding, as cliche as it sounds, like you're really not alone. Like I said this on the last podcast episode, that story, and I said, it's like, "Buttercup, you ain't anything special." And I mean that with all the love in the world, right? Like we all are going through some really big pivots right now and having these conversations. And with that being said, I think understanding like you really aren't alone. Like a lot of people are in this boat, and I think that's huge. Um, I know it helps me, for sure. And then going on, like piggybacking off of what Rachel said, understanding the root cause of that trauma is huge. Like I can literally date back now to like that first financial, um, anxiety I had. I was like eight years old, that I lost money that my parents gave me. And that one incident shaped so much around like my money habits and, you know, my mindset on it, XYZ. So I also think understanding the root cause of it, oh my God, that makes all the difference in the world. And then like you said, Rachel, treating it. Oh, I'm– See, guys, don't have a kid on call you. Geez, sorry. But yeah, I think that, that plays a big role, um, just understanding that root cause. You know, I think about all those books out there like, um, How Badass Is Money? or whatever the hell it's called, and, you know, none of the books ever related to me. I don't have like this money fear, like, "Oh, I don't deserve it," right? And I think like especially the online space teaches that a lot, like this, this deserving factor around money when there's so many other elements to it. So it– I remember when I first started really thinking about that, like, "Oh wow, like I don't, I don't relate to this. What do I relate to?" And that's when I started to figure

Stop using productivity to numb your anxiety

Kristina
23:00

out the root cause. And man, if you can do that, I'm not saying it gets easier, but it gives a lot of perspective. It gives, and it helps you give yourself some grace.

Tessa
23:11

Yeah, so important to give yourself grace, um, just throughout this process, 'cause like you said, we're all going through it. No matter what stage, even when you hit your next level, you're now trying to keep getting to someone else's level. Um, so you know, it's always just give yourself grace with that process. Um, and I'd also say that when you're deep in that sh- um, shame spiral and it feels kinda just like nothing is working, um, some like quick hacks is that not using productivity as a way to like release that anxiety, because what happens is anxiety leads us to more work. I just need to do more, have more, and it gives a temporary relief that just teaches the nervous system, "Okay, we- we're gonna give more anxiety," because it's like a cyclical process in that. So taking time to reconnect with just what's around you and kinda settle the nervous system, you know, going out and sitting in nature by a big tree, going and taking a walk. Like nature is one of our most abundant resources and something that can help us, you know, not consciously but subconsciously get out of that scarcity mindset that we don't have enough and there's not enough available to us. Um, or just, you know, sitting down and doing a, a deep breath center meditation, um, eating a really nutritious meal and just feeling, you know, that the body kind of, um, be satiated. All of those are kinda signals to transition out of fight or flight, so then you can actually just look at the same situation through a different lens.

Stoy
24:48

First of all, Tess, do not attack me like that again, please. Okay? I was not prepared for you to just throw me out there like that. No. Um, I felt that one more to my core because I, I do that with anxiety. I just do more work, and then I recognize, well, that's a bad cycle, but… And then I keep doing it. So, uh, I definitely appreciate that. Uh, I would say- kind of what I told my son last night, um, after soccer tryouts, 'cause he didn't have a good tryout on the seventh day of, of the tryouts, and I was in… All I told him was, "Just put your chin up high and take the next step forward." I don't care what that step looks like for anyone out there. Like, whatever your goals are, where you're at, just hold your chin up high and take a step forward, because you are able to get through it, and you have to go through it. But if you do it with your chin up high, things are just a little easier. Things are a little lighter, um, than they are

Ashley
25:38

together. Did you sing the Frozen song, the Do the Next Right Thing? Yeah. I'm really hoping that you're gonna say that you sang the chorus to Frozen II, of Do the Next Right Thing. And if you didn't- No, but uh- And if you didn't, shame on you. Yep. Like, Dad, I'm really disappointed in you. I'm-

Stoy
25:55

As you should be, 'cause I did not. But, uh, editing, Christina, let's make sure that that gets in at this place, and that'd be kind of fun.

Ashley
26:02

Yeah.

Stoy
26:03

Um, onto our next topic, 'cause it kind of, these things can come hand in hand, but one's a different trigger. So we're, we're in a shameful spiral, and usually that causes us to enact. We don't do anything. We just freeze. However, what I'm talking about isn't necessarily from an internal, it's more external. So we all know this. It's 2026. We've had political crap. We've had tariffs. We've had wars. We've had, now we have a whole student loan thing coming out July 1st. We've had, uh, you know, the most student loans and mortgages and everything delinquent. Uh, businesses are failing. People's businesses aren't doing great. Some are doing fantastic. We've got a stupid IPO launch for SpaceX, and everyone thinks it's gonna be the next savior. Like, we have so many things going on from the financial perspective, let alone, like, the personal and, you know, there's always school shootings. There's always something, right? It causes a lot of us to, like, take that in and just not do anything. Like, I'm not gonna go out in the world. I'm gonna Uber Eats everything. Um, I, I just don't wanna be around people. And I feel like that paral- being paralyzed like that obviously isn't a great thing. I'm not the expert, but I do know it's not a great thing in business for us when we're trying to move forward. When, when we have all of this external things happening, and we do start to freeze and, and just, like, lock down, 'cause we all have done that- Where, what do we do? Like, where, where, where does that go for all of you of, like, all this stuff coming on? And I know we all take it on because it's part of our… When we do content, it's part of our research so we can help others. Like, but that's a lot, and what do regular people who don't have the experience or the abilities to overcome some of that, like, what do they do?

Ashley
27:49

I… Well, first, I… So all of the things that you named there externally, I think are, are hap- are absolutely, they're happening. Um, you're not lying. Uh, that's

Frozen by the 2026 chaos? Here's the actual move

Ashley
28:00

not what I'm meaning to say is that you're just making things up. Uh, but I guess when I was listening to you say that and the, uh, what was also coming up for me is just the busyness of life pending where, you know, families are, like, right now. So, you know, Story, you and I share just that travel sport commonality. I've got two middle schoolers. Like, we are in the throes of travel sports. We are in the throes of, you know, all just kind of like the things. Um, and, you know, Uber Eats, um, you know, Chick-fil-A. Like, there are just things sometimes where I find that myself, friends, and other clients, like what they tend to reach for is convenience. Um, things that make, make life a little bit easier, um, because decision fatigue is real. Uh, a- and so what do or what can like people do? I think taking some taking a few moments, uh, to just really thoughtfully consider, like, what do I need in this period of time right now that would be helpful, uh, for me? So for example, it's summertime right now, and I work from home full time. Uh, my 12 and 13-year-old are also home right now, and, uh, this is just 10 weeks where life, my day-to-day, like my like quote unquote, like 8:00 to 3:00, is a little bit more disrupted. It's a little bit more chaotic. Um, I'm not able to have the same rhythms and things that I do during the school year, uh, that I do now. And, you know, I think the tendency for some people, uh, myself included, is to be very like frustrated, to maybe, maybe there is some like guilt and shame that comes up. Uh, maybe there's, there's a lot of stuff there, but we, we, we fight it, right? We don't take time. We just kind of like put our head down. Maybe we freeze, uh, and just don't do anything, but we might also just fight it, um, internally, like with how we speak to ourself or about the situation. And so I do think taking some time to thoughtfully think through like, "Hey, what do I need, like kind of in this season?" For me, what that looks like, if we're talking about just some practical strategies, um, you know, I have changed when I go for walks, um, to like f- first thing in the morning. So I've kept my wake-up time like the same even though my kids aren't getting up and going to school, and I'm choosing to go and get my walks like in, during that time. Also, I live in Georgia, and it here in a few weeks it's gonna be hotter than Hades for about like 60 to 90 days. So there's some advantage there from a physical exercise. Uh, but I've– we've also thought about like convenience like too. Like what does that look like during this time? Things that maybe we might pay for that are, uh, a little bit more convenient. Um, s- you know, and, and that's okay, and accepting that this is temporary. Uh, I think that is the key for seasons, seasons of life, um, whether, you know, even like political climate Um, you know, market volatility, like, uh, like these are seasons. They are generally, knock on wood, I will say temporary states. And if we can remind ourself like that this is temporary, and so in this temporary state, what do I need? What will help me, uh, to be able to get through? Uh, thoughtfully thinking through and considering that, um, it at least, you know, it might be helpful. It may not solve everything, but it might just be helpful enough to give you just a little bit more, you know, mental, emotional, uh, or even physical bandwidth

Tessa
31:58

I totally agree with that. And I think, um, it's really important to also shrink the time horizon in your mind because the, the mind has a tendency to just project everything that we need to do within the next year, five years. You know, we're thinking not only about these on an immediate scale, but how is the world gonna be for my kids and next generations? And that's just something naturally that the mind does. Um, so recognizing that and really starting to just focus on what is one thing I can do in the next 30 minutes or in this day to push me one step forward of training my nervous system to be able to hold and receive more. Um, so I think it helps to really separate the thinking mind from the doing mind. Um, when we can give ourselves proof and evidence of what we're doing, it helps rein the mind in so that it's not so concerned with those long-term things that still need to be done. Um, so I like to o- even make like a have done list, not just a to-do list, because sometimes my to-do list can get so overwhelming, and I do start to feel that overwhelm where you just kinda wanna procrastinate. Um, so just keeping like a note in my phone of key things that I've done over the week, so when I do start to feel those lulls, I can return to it and say, "I've actually done a lot. Um, yes, nothing maybe is moving in the direction that I wanted, but I know that I'm putting the effort and the momentum out there. And as soon as I transition out of this fight or flight, I'm gonna be open to more opportunities."

Rachel
33:32

Oh, I'd love to tag on that 'cause I wanna go on the fight or flight experience for sure. You know, and in the scenario you were painting, Stoi, I feel like, oh, the emotional experience of like getting inundated with the bad news and stuff is, is a feeling of helplessness. That's one of the most painful things for us to feel is, is to feel ineffective, especially if we're the kind of person who likes to do things or likes to fix things, but then we hear the news, it's like there's no way little old me can do anything. And so I think there's a, a couple things with that. First is kinda like the Fred Rogers, like look for the helpers. Like I look for the glimmers. There is good news out there, everybody. Like, there's good news. You do have to look for it, but there's totally good news. You know, like-

Ashley
34:13

Actually, there's an Instagram account called like Good Good News or something like… I forget the handle. Exactly. There's literally an Instagram account that is dedicated like just to good news to that point, Rachel.

Rachel
34:24

I love that. Yeah. Let's find that. And we do have to look for it because the bad news dominates because our brains are wired like safety, safety, where are all the threats? So I think number one, just like look for the good news. Look for the good news in your present community, your friends, your neighbors, your… I don't know, like this whole bond release just happened in Denver, and all of our parks are getting redone. Like, okay, there's good news out there. And so I think that's number one. And then, but number two, following that line, so I come from an art therapy background. You know what feels really good when you feel ineffective? Is to make something with your hands. And I'm a huge fan of rekindling hobbies, and that's like no joke. I don't… Hobbies just aren't an extra. I really think they're core, and I got to have something that is non-monetized, not part of your career, something that's totally different. And a lot of my clients, their financial healing journey often includes rekindling an old hobby or committing to a hobby that they had been interested in and had put off. Like these are not nice-to-haves. They are got-to-haves to like how do you feel like a person? And often our hobbies are social. You know, not always, but often it is about bringing people together you wouldn't otherwise, um, be with, and to make something, to do something that is outside of the commercialism, productivity trap, like you said, Tess. I really love that. Like I, I, I play music with, um, with other parents once a month, and these are parents that never come to school functions, aren't involved in the PTA. It's like a dad with a broken guitar and a six-pack of beer, and I wouldn't know him any other way. But we rock out to '90s songs every third Wednesday, and it is everything for me. And then I can weather some of the bad news, right? 'Cause like my cup is filled. So, um, find the glimmers, get into your hobbies.

Tessa
36:14

I love that. It's not nice to have, it's gotta have It really is. Because we take so much of these and just consider them like, "Oh, it's nice to, you know, do these things. It's nice to do wellness." You know, they're all feel-good kinda habits, but it's really- Self-care like rewiring, yeah, rewiring the nervous system from the inside out. Yeah. So gotta have.

Kristina
36:33

Yeah. I just- I feel triggered by this whole conversation. Oh, no. No, it's a good thing, though. I think it's good. I think I, I, as story goes, I like to feel triggered. Like, it, it means good content.

Rachel
36:47

It means I'm alive.

Kristina
36:48

Yeah. And that, you know, it's, it's something that I struggle with. That's why. It's, like, something I struggle with personally. Um, the last three years, but really two years of my life, I've been in a full-time caregiving role. And so, like, that brought, like, a whole other side of emotional stress to me, but also showed me how important it is for me to stay into my routine and do these things that I need to do. And a- like, you know, you just saying, Rachel, like you fill your cup by, you know, playing music. Like, I love that. I went and took a dance class last month, and I was like, "I need to do this stuff." Right? And so that's why I say it's triggering 'cause I'm like, I know I gotta be better about this, but it's, it's something, and for anybody who's listening who's like me, who really struggles with it, like, you kinda do have to force yourself in the beginning. You gotta force yourself. You gotta force yourself to do it. And, um, I know that every time I do, right? Even if it's like, I live in Florida, so I'm right there with you, Ashley. It's already hot here. And so it's like, you know, even if it means- You could just come up to Denver. Come to Denver. I love

Rachel
37:49

Denver.

Kristina
37:52

I used to live in Denver. I lived in Denver, actually. Oh, that's so cool. Yeah. I'll

Ashley
37:55

be there- I'll come if they have sweet tea. When they start making sweet tea-

Kristina
37:59

I'd love to make some sweet tea

Ashley
38:00

like you do- at What They Have, then I will move there.

Kristina
38:02

I would make- But until

Ashley
38:03

then

Rachel
38:04

Okay,

Kristina
38:04

tell me how- I love, I love thunder. It's amazing. But yeah, I just think that like, you know, really tapping into your routine, making sure that you're doing these things, um, surrounding yourself by the right people. That's something else that I really noticed, um, how much my personal energy gets drained by people. And so, like, refilling my own cup is, is huge, um, whether that's with people or more often than not, without. And once you can… I think that plays a role, too, like understanding your own energetic levels and stuff and what you can take on. Tapping in– Sorry, I don't wanna go all spiritual on everybody, but it does. It, it helps. It helps. So yeah, I– everything you guys are saying, I'm like, "I need to, I need to listen to this a little deeper." 'Cause I think a lot of us know what we need to do, right? And it's like we know what we have to do. We know what's gonna make us feel better, but it's the actual doing part. So it's like we can have the intention behind it, but until we're actually doing it, I think, I think that's where I sit, and I'm gonna assume I'm not alone in that.

Rachel
39:03

Can I also… I feel like I wanna close the loop also. It-it-that I think, uh, things like, yeah, your dance class, you know, music or getting with community or whatever, and if there is like a cost involved or a financial component, that's often like a really helpful thing for my clients. "Oh, would I rather DoorDash tonight or do I wanna pay for that guitar lesson?" Right? And now I have something I'm going towards and like what is filling your cup, what's feeling really good, and like helping me feel like a person. And if there is a financial component, then now we're working towards something, and that thing that is regulating for you, when you're more regulated, you'll be less inclined to impulse spend. You'll interface with your money more often. Like that's how it all, I think, feeds into itself because, um, you know, willpower is just a really finite resource. But if you can start the flywheel of signing up for the class, right? Peep it, prepaying for it, going with some friends who will remind you or be like, "We missed you in class." You're, uh, ha- I think it's, I think we're so driven in this society

The joy money line that belongs in every budget

Rachel
40:00

that like I have to, you know, bootstrap it. I have to. And, and it, sometimes we t- need that little spark to get going. But, you know, w-with our relationships, with maybe putting a little skin in the game financially, these things actually can help us find that motivation to stay in it. And then it's, it's a flywheel and it fulfills itself.

Stoy
40:19

From a practical step, this is what we do for everyone's budget. It's a line item. We call it fun money or joy money. Larry Sprung, another CFP of mine, terms the toy joy, but, um, either joy or fun money. You have to have this allocation in your budget. I don't care if it's 25, 50, 100, whatever the number is for your budget, but this is money that you literally could set on fire if you want to. Just don't, please. Do it, you know, something that does bring you joy. But using that for yourself allows you to already know it's not coming from another bucket. Because a lot of us do get stuck and frozen of, "Well, I'm maxed out on my budget," right? "I, I have everything allocated. I can't go do that for myself. I cannot go do the Pilates class, or I cannot go buy steak and cook it for myself. Like, I can't do those things that bring me joy because it's not in my budget." And that's why we need to have that fun or, or joy money budget line item for these specific reasons, to already tell yourself, "Yeah, go do it." Like, you are allowed to, you need to, you have to, you get to, whatever word you need to use. It's already put into the budget, and it allows that freedom, um, of choice, in my opinion.

Kristina
41:28

Can I just add one thing 'cause you just said that? That is, like, my, probably my favorite thing about working with you, besides the, our relationship, my cousin, brother, not. But I like that I don't feel guilty about those things that I need. Like, I get monthly massages. That shit's not going anywhere. Like, I need that for, like, my– And my massage therapist, like, she's, like, a healer. I'm like, "This woman resets me every single month." Like, I, like, yes. Is it an expense? Yeah. Is it an expense I probably don't need? Sure. But no, like, mentally, it makes all the difference for me. And not having guilt from you around having, like, to be, needing to do that for myself, oh man, it's huge. Like, I mean, I remember when you told me I can only get my nails done once a month. "Cool, I'm okay with that as long as I can get 'em done," 'cause it's part– Like, that kind of stuff does make me feel more like myself. And I think that if people understood that or had the right financial people in their corner, that would, that really lessens a lot. That made me feel a lot better. It, it might all amount to me.

Tessa
42:31

Yeah. And Christina, I always like to think of it as like you're throwing more money in the economy, you're supporting all these other businesses like nails, massage. Like these are people's livelihoods. This is what makes eco- You know, it's reciprocity is how we get more and grow more. So when we're in that scarcity mindset, we tend not to be as giving because we start to hoard and we start, you know, out of fear. Um, so recognizing and just changing your perception in the moment of, "I've, I have no guilt about this 'cause I'm supporting this other business," or, "I'm supporting these industries," um, can go a long way.

Kristina
43:09

I

Stoy
43:09

like that All right, let's take a quick intermission before the third topic. This intermission is brought to you and sponsored by Ashley and her recipe for her sweet tea. So Ashley, go ahead, tell us your recipe for sweet tea.

Ashley
43:20

Um, whoa, okay. What if that's, like, proprietary? Like um, we did not go over this at the beginning. Um, s- are we talk- we're talking, like, Southern sweet tea, AKA, like, diabetes in a cup, right?

Stoy
43:36

Like- Well, I mean, allegedly we can't get you out, um, of, of the state of Georgia unless we have this with

Ashley
43:41

us, right? Well, it's not, it's not the state of Georgia. Like, the Southeast. Like, let's be clear- Southeast, okay I am a North Carolina girl, like, at my heart and core. Like, born and raised. Um, and hopefully will die a North Carolina girl. Um, I'm just forced to live in Georgia right now. Right. But where-

Rachel
43:58

Ashley, the people, the people wanna know. The people need to know

Ashley
44:00

the, where my boundaries lie are states that serve sweet tea in their restaurants. Like, you know. So I mean, the recipe is simple. It's black tea, uh, and sugar. Now, there are some- there are some key, like, you know, strategies here. Like, there's, like, the sugar, water, tea, like, ratio. Like, how strong, like, the tea. There are, like, some, you know, individual preferences here. Lipton is not sweet tea. Like, Lipton sweet- Oh in a bottle, like, that is not Southern, like, sweet tea. Um, it needs to be, like, just enough, like, you know, kinda sweet, like, thickness to where, you know, it is, it's satia- like, it's satiating. Like, it feels good. Like, with a lot of ice. Oh, that's the other thing too, is that you have to have the right ice. Um, because you need… You can't have big ice cubes because they're just terrible. You need almost, like, the, um, like, the pellet ice. Um- Like the Sonic ice? kinda, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and listen, there might be some people that have different thoughts and feelings about this, and they're wrong. But, like, the, you know, the ice can also be, like, a deal breaker here. Um, I could talk about sweet tea for a long time, probably than what this intermission allows, but I am just here to say on record, states that do not offer sweet tea as, like, a this is a, you know, staple in our restaurant, you won't find me moving there. I'm not moving to those states. So, and I'm pretty sure Colorado's one of them. So I will visit- For sure. Do you

Rachel
45:35

do- For sure. We have some, like, agave nectar hippie dippy thing.

Ashley
45:38

That's not, no. Okay. Like, that might be healthy- Yeah and that is great, but I'm talking, like, like, the white, like, sugar, like-

Kristina
45:47

Diabetes that,

Ashley
45:48

that, yes. Like, I, like, I need diabetes in a cup. Like, uh-

Kristina
45:52

Do you do Sun

Ashley
45:53

Tea at all, Ashley? Like, my teeth need to hurt when I drink it. Like- Ooh.

Kristina
45:58

Do you do sun tea? Have you done sun tea?

Ashley
46:01

Sun tea?

Kristina
46:01

I have a, yeah, I have a Georgia boy, and he makes sun tea. Is that

Ashley
46:06

lemonade,

Kristina
46:06

sweet

Ashley
46:07

tea- Like le- lemonade sweet tea

Kristina
46:08

type of- No. It's like- You put it in a

Rachel
46:09

jar out in the

Kristina
46:10

sun and you put it outside. He's like, yeah. Like, he, he's from Georgia. He's from, he's such a Georgia boy. And literally-

Ashley
46:17

Does he also

Kristina
46:17

eat red

Ashley
46:18

clay? Like, because-

Kristina
46:19

I hope so I don't… The sun tea threw me, man. I was like, I was like, "So this is baking outside to, like, steep?" And he's like, "Yeah." He left it out there for, like, eight hours. Man, it was so good.

Ashley
46:34

Maybe.

Kristina
46:35

Like, this is- I don't know crazy. That

Ashley
46:36

sounds, that sounds, what do the kids say? Uh-huh. Yeah. That sounds sus. Um-

Kristina
46:42

Yeah. But… That's what I'm saying. But it's sweet tea, it's just another way of making it.

Ashley
46:45

I'll try it. But, uh, you should. I, listen, I will try it, but I'm pretty bougie and opinionated about it. And maybe it just, maybe if he has- I'm here for it the right ice, like, it's, it's fine, it's great. I don't know.

Kristina
46:55

I agree with you on the ice. Ice is very… So when you started, Mike-

Stoy
46:59

Oh, shit

Kristina
46:59

just saying. Yeah, I

Stoy
46:59

forgot I did. That, that was hilarious. Um, it was the, when Ashley went into a different realm, by the way, she, she, she, like, looked here and did this. I knew she was envisioning, like, it's not watery, it's not syrup, but there is this, like, there's this. This. And that's what she was getting at. And I, internally I could not. Like, I, I felt what

Kristina
47:19

she- I feel like we need to, like, zoom on Ashley's face for the, for the edit and, like,

Ashley
47:23

have her just fire, like- I am way too strong. I have way too many opinions- I'm here for it about this. Way too many opinions. Like, when you

Rachel
47:29

left, like, therapy land- Yeah like, you are no longer a therapist at all. I

Ashley
47:33

am so sorry. I'm, all I gotta say is sweet tea and barbecue, if, I will talk for, like, ad nauseam, uh, and, and share my opinion. I am not ashamed. I will die… Those are hills I'll die on, talking about what's right and wrong when it comes to sweet tea and barbecue. So, yeah.

Stoy
47:50

Oh. Well, this intermission was brought to you by Ashley- and her, uh, fascination with sweet tea. Sweet tea is delicious. On our next intermission, next one will be about

First gen wealth guilt and betting on yourself

Stoy
48:00

barbecue. So, folks, stay tuned- Ready uh, for that. All right, our last topic, um- While yes, built around first gen wealth guilt in general, but I've got four badass women on here who, one, are my ideal clientele in general, but also I know have gone through some of this, I don't wanna call it first gen wealth guilt per se, but being women, being business owners in this world, and y- whether it's you having kids, whether it's you're dealing with all the crap that's going on in the world, I know there's something heavy there. Uh, we've all each individually talked about it, but it is there. And it's not only for women, right? Like, majority of what we deal with is women, LGBTQ, and minority, um, business owners. Um, back to it though, it's, it's not just one. It's like the entire part of America where we're the ones that have to deal with a lot more emotions and guilt and things that come up in our life that, that wealth- that middle aged rich white guys

NoBS
48:58

don't. Um,

Stoy
48:58

let's just be real about that. So, um, let's walk through that. Let's walk through e- either you personally, individually, or in general this, this, uh, first gen wealth guilt thing, building what you're building based upon who you are and what our society has raised us all to be or to think today.

Ashley
49:18

So I, I don't mind jumping in. Um So personally, I came, come from a middle-class family. Both my parents worked. My dad was the breadwinner. My mom, uh, she worked, uh… Uh, so career feels like a strong word, but jobs also feels a bit maybe diminished, demeaned. Like, she worked jobs. I don't know if I would say she had a career. Um, but has in more of the later stages started to build some of that career in, in banking. But growing up, right, I saw my mom work in different areas, different sectors, and she, she always worked. Her mother, my grandmother, did not. She was a stay-at-home military wife. Um, a- and so there's been this like, I saw this progression in what was kind of communicated to me, like, as a woman, is to go out and be independent, um, and to be able to take care of yourself and not, you know, don't want you to like to depend on a man. Like, make your own way. Um, and not that those were not helpful messages, because they were. Simultaneously, like, my father, like, also very much communicated like, "You can do anything a man can do." Like, not factually true, but, like, I appreciated, like, the vote of confidence, um, you know, there. But it was more of like a sense of empowering, like empowering me. Um, and my dad had a very small CPA practice, so he worked for like a firm, but he saw, like clients on the side. But the idea of like being a business owner, I didn't have a model really like for that. I was just told, you know, "Be able to take care of yourself." And my dad, like he would communicate to me like, you know, "Hey, work– If you can, like work for yourself. Um, like be your own boss. You can do it." There's a lot, like as a, as a woman, like growing up, like a young one, like there are really empowering like messages that I heard like on repeat, uh, for both of my parents. Um, but I didn't have a model. Like what does that look like as a woman who very much is ambitious and like wants a career, wants to build something that is meaningful, but also like I wanted to be a mom, and it was like this, "I kinda wanna have it all, um, but I don't even know if I can. I don't… That feels maybe selfish." Um, also, who else does that? Do– I didn't know anyone that, that did that. And I would say even s- not, not still now, but in my personal life, so in my, you know, circle of friends, in my family system. You know, my husband Clayton and I, like we are both business owners. No one else in our family, they're business owners, and there are just unique challenges that come with that. Um, but also like on the female side, uh, and the mom side, it's like, "Well, you don't have to." Like I get told, like, "You don't have to work." Um, like, "You could just be with your kids and not stress out in the summer," uh, when, you know, they're running around and like, you know, "Mom, can you take me here? Can you take me there?" Like can you ta- You know, yeah, I'd love to just do that, but I also want something else like for me. So there's this t- like for me, there is this like ten- constant like tension of like who, who am I supposed to be? Who do I want to be? Uh, and who do I need to be? And like talking, talking with other particularly, like, female, um, business owners. And listen, I'm gonna, like, crap on therapists here for a second, Rachel. This is not, like, meaning to you. Like, but, um, as a clinician, like, when I went into therapy, that was a female, is still, like, a female, it's very female, like, heavily, like, dominated. And I kind of thought, like, "This is my tribe," like other, like, female, like, practice owners. Um, but I found that, you know, one, they, they kind of were, but, like, also kind of weren't. Um, and they struggled with a lot of the same things I did, but that growth mindset of like, "I want something more for myself," and like, "I wanna make a good living, and yeah, I wanna help people, but, like, I also wanna make money too." And I, I… There is a sense of like, I do deserve that. Um, you know? And I, and I can do that. I'm capable of doing that. Unfortunately, like, more by l- by and large, more so in the mental health community, y- we talk about shame, like, man, you are, like, put on the stake and, like, burned if you start talking about, like, "I want to make a good living, and I wanna charge like a, you know, I'll say a premium price because, you know, I offer a lot of value." Like, uh-uh. Like, there's a lot of, like, shaming around that. So, like, even living in that kind of space for over a decade, like, really messed with me. Um, and I don't even know if I'm completely out of that since I've moved over to the darker side of financial services. Um, they're like both dark sides. I, I don't know which one's darker. Like- it just kind of depends, like, on any given day. Uh, but, you know, some of that has been helpful, like seeing, you know, hey, I c- it's okay for me to make money as a woman, as a mom, as a business owner. Like, that is okay. But, you know, I'll be honest, like, it's still a journey. Like, these… I don't know if I have any answers of what I have figured out other than I'm just not afraid. Um, and I try to surround my pe- myself with other people. They may not have it figured out, um, either. Uh, eh, but they're also not afraid, and at least I'm in the trenches with other people who aren't scared, uh, as opposed to, as opposed to being alone, um, or surrounded by other people who claim to have it all figured out, you know? But we all know they, they do not. And, and they drink unsweet tea and eat bad barbecue. So, there's that.

Kristina
55:31

It's a bad barbecue for me. Yeah. I don't get that.

Ashley
55:37

I will never get that.

Tessa
55:41

Yeah. I love what you, I love what you said about, you know, needing the right support and really not le- like, not just leveraging it out to anyone, but getting the support that you actually need. Because I feel like first gen, you're not only carrying your hopes for the future, but you're carrying like generations, like generations of disappointments and failures that have happened throughout your family lineage. Everything that they couldn't accomplish, their fears, like we're storing that in the subconscious. So whether you're aware of it or not, that's always affecting you. So even your attempt to be a business owner when no one else in your family was, is a huge step for your psyche and your nervous system, and just as a human, you know, in this lifetime. So it goes back to that giving ourselves grace because the ability to not only envision then- envision that, but take active steps towards it is huge. Um, and I think what something that I learned very early on, luckily, was that I didn't have to do it alone, because that loneliness can be so isolating. And if you just start to reach out, like just like Google searches of what, you know, what companies exist that try to help businesses starting out. What, what, what mentors maybe exist in my space, whether it's not just the traditional pathways of this is their… You know, it's being able to explore, I do need support. It may not come in the most conventional or traditional forms of what I know and what my family has known, but there is a lot of support out there that I can tap into.

Rachel
57:23

Couldn't find the button. Yeah, I'm, I'm a, yeah, first gen wealth builder, and it's, uh, it's, it's lonely and exhausting breaking trail, you know? It's, it's very cool to be a cycle breaker. Uh, it's– and I'm more and more comfortable with it. But yeah, to really fully have left where my family came from, how I grew up, how my parents were, um, with money, you know, I was… W- we all kind of tend to, I find, repeat the money patterns that we grew up with. It's like a map, right? This is what we do. And so my parents were educators. It's like you get a, y- you know, you get a job at a school or a nonprofit, and you pay the bills. You don't get into debt, but you don't pursue wealth. You kind of break even. You stay among the people. You do good work. You volunteer, and that's about it. And those people, those other people who pursue wealth, they're bad. And so then, you know, I get all just… I'm living that life when I meet my now husband who is an immigrant to this country and has full on American dream. Like, "I want a mansion. I want wealth." And I'm like, th- it was a total paradigm shift. We have come to the middle 'cause I'm like, "I don't care how much money I have, I'm not taking care of a mansion." Like, no. Um, so we have come to the middle there. But it really disrupted me. Like, oh, it's actually okay to want comfort and have wealth and hang on to that, and still be a good person, and still do the things that make me feel more connected to my people. But it's, I, yeah, I'm uncomfortable. I'm uncomfortable with my wealth. I can just say it. It like makes me, hmm. I'll just share that with y'all. I'm still sitting with this, you know? But I also realize that my suffering doesn't help the world, first off. I'm also walking my talk, being a financial therapist, you know? And, um, seeing the, the, the safety that wealth provides, and I do want this experience for everyone. And, um, so yeah, that's, that's, that's my, that's my share with it, and I'm actively still right now figuring that out. But it is getting more and more comfortable and something I'm proud of, where it was like even a couple years ago, like my dirty little secret.

Ashley
59:33

Well, that's not, that's not as bad of a dirty secret as that you eat terrible barbecue, Rachel, so

Rachel
59:38

That's probably true. I mean, kind of- I was

Kristina
59:40

gonna say-

Rachel
59:40

It's all like, what about barbecue tofu? We'll do that.

Kristina
59:44

I was gonna say, can that be my dirty little secret? Like No, I love that. No, I, I grew up definitely, like Ashley, when you were talking before about just like, you know, just having that beat into your head. Like, you can't rely on anybody. You know, you gotta make… I also had that positive reinforcement, but also that piece too, and so it's like a weird, it's a weird thing to kinda sit in between es- especially as you get older. Um, so I, I definitely grew up like that too. And you know, my, my stepdad was in private practice on his own, but in my immediate family, I'm also the first person who decided to do this. And I remember when my mom asked me probably for like the first four years, "Did you find a job yet? Did you find a job yet?" And I'm like, "Bitch, this is my job. I love you. Leave me alone." Right? And, and now obviously it's like a totally different, different ballgame, but sometimes I think my resilience is what keeps me in trouble because I'm just like, "This, I'm not backing down." Like, I'm, I'm going for it. So it's, it's interesting. It's, it's interesting. Um, but I know that we can't give it up, right?

Ashley
1:00:50

No. There's a quote that I used to say. I don't know who, maybe I heard it from somewhere, so if I stole it, like I, I would attribute it to them. I don't know. But I just know since like probably grad school, um, so I'm 40, so that would've been like 15, 17 kinda years-ish ago. Coming up on two decades. Um, but I remember very vividly like saying that I would rather bet on myself than anyone else. Um, and I have, that, I have said that. Um, and I have said that even to, to Clayton, like I would rather bet on us, right, than, than put that faith on, in like somebody else when it comes to, uh, our financial success or making, making our own way, and I think that's been such a motivator like for me, like in business. Like, I trust me. This might also, um, highlight some of my own trauma. I recognize that. Um, but like I trust me. I trust my ability to be resilient. I trust my ability to figure it out, because I think that everything is figureoutable. Uh, and, and I trust, you know, us, like our couple, like unit. Um, and so y- you know, those come from, uh, like those kind of messages, those beliefs, like those scripts obviously they come from somewhere. Um, you know, I've got a few of my own little dirty secrets, other than my opinions around sweet tea and barbecue that we don't need to go into. But, uh, you know, they have informed and really shaped how I, how I pursue this work, how I pursue like building, building wealth. And I'm not saying that it's right, it's just that's what I know, and that's what I'm confident in. Um, and, and so far Like, we have a nice, we have a nice life, and it's work- it's worked out. Um, you know, that path in my brain is very, very clear, and I'm gonna continue to take it. Uh, I don't know if I foresee a scenario where I go into, like, corporate W-2, you know, life, and I trust and put my trust in someone else or another corporation. I don't know. Like, I don't wanna say never, um, you know, but it's hard… That's hard for me to imagine and to foresee for myself. So I'll bet on me. I'll bet on us. Um, y- you know, and that's, that's what keeps me going.

Stoy
1:03:11

Well, besides the fact- I- I just threw up about corporate, um- I noticed that we don't need to talk about corporate. Um, I once- It gave me

Kristina
1:03:17

anxiety to think about.

Stoy
1:03:19

Yeah. Yeah. She said corporate, and I, I, I threw up. I'm like tense. So we're, we're good there. Um, I… And, and we're gonna go deeper on this one. I think this one we could hit many different ways. I have a few client stories, but we are out of time for today's roundtable, folks, okay? However, if you wanna get to know what my guilt and how I feel, Ashley and I did a Father's Day episode that comes out next week, and you'll get a really deep glimpse into that. So I'll leave my story for that. But again, Tessa, Christina, Ashley, Rachel, thank you for your time. Listeners, if you've gotten this far or if this is one of the three cut ups, thank you. Thank you for st- tuning in. But we always ask this, and it is, if you heard something for yourself, take that step forward. If you heard it for someone else, also help them take that step forward. We're all here to help you as much as we can. Again, as on behalf of the No BS Collective, thank you. If you wanna know more, all the resources are on the webpage. It'll be in the newsletters. Um, reach out to us if you can. Thank you.

NoBS
1:04:34

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