Stoy Hall, CFP®:
0:00

Here we are, everybody. No BS wealth podcast is back this time. We have two professors, which is unusual for us because usually we just have business owners. So this perspective is going to be great. Kim and Todd Saxon here, and we're going to get the in depth of the strategy. And then a little more in depth of the marketing and why those things go together and how important that is for starting a business, growing your business, and maybe taking it to that next level where you're, you're wanting to sell your business. Kim Todd, thank you for coming on love having you why don't you give us a background of who you are and then your different past similar past, but different past when it comes to business.

Todd Saxton:
0:38

Sure, so we actually met in business consulting in the D. C. area. I studied economics undergrad and then went into doing which was at that time. Fairly proactive, you know, we were calling customers, competitors, suppliers of the companies we worked with and help them think through their strategy, particularly in my area in making acquisitions, forming joint ventures or strategic alliances. And investments in new areas and that's where I met,

Kim Saxton, MBA, PHD:
1:09

right? And I actually studied marketing at MIT, which most people don't think you can do that. So I'm very quantitative way of looking at marketing. And I've been practicing marketing market research for, you know, something like, I don't know, 37 years. What, what?

Stoy Hall, CFP®:
1:25

So you've seen it change slightly, just a little bit.

Kim Saxton, MBA, PHD:
1:29

It's very interesting with today's students when, you know, we are looking at a company from the past and they're like, I just don't know why they didn't do blah, blah, blah on the Internet.

Stoy Hall, CFP®:
1:38

Because there wasn't it wasn't what it is,

Kim Saxton, MBA, PHD:
1:42

but for, you know, for students now, the Internet has always existed,

Stoy Hall, CFP®:
1:48

which is weird because, I mean, So the, it's a generation below mine and I remember not having internet. I remember it just starting so like we can recognize what was, I still can't get my brain around that this other generation has never had any of that. They don't understand any of it, which is crazy,

Kim Saxton, MBA, PHD:
2:08

right? Whereas the 1st time I use the Internet, it was only an intranet and I was using DOS prompts.

Stoy Hall, CFP®:
2:15

Old school DOS, no one knows what that is anymore. So that's fun. Well, that's a fantastic little bit of your background. Now let's get into what a lot of people are always going to question is when do I start in a business? How do I start my business? And I'm always, all these questions are up to whoever wants to answer them. There's no certain order by the way. When it comes to that, you know, say I'm someone who maybe has something going on or wants to buy something or whatever. What is the first thing that I need to do as a person? Before starting or buying a business.

Todd Saxton:
2:52

All right, I'll jump on that 1. so and and it's interesting if, you know, if you. Follow the media and some of the hype around it. It's always like, take the leap, you know, and you envision it's either like, you're sitting on the side of the pool, or you're jumping in the water and there's no in between. But I think the 1st question is why right? Why do you want to do this? Is it. Because other people are telling you, you know, stop working for the man and go do your own thing. Or you can make more money doing it yourself. That may be true, but you have to do some deep soul searching as to why it is that you want to do something and then recognize that there are a variety of ways to get there. It's not just, you know, take the leap and you're all in, or you're, you're sitting on the sidelines. There are ways to do a side gig to get to know a business better, better understand it ways to partner with with other people who are already involved in a business. So you get to know more about it. You know, this, I think it's a false kind of narrative to think that you're either. You know, a chicken not willing to do it, or you're going all in and risking everything, including, you know, being able to keep the lights on for your home and family. And and it's important to think through, not just the why, but then the, the, how, how do you want to approach this to learn more and know whether it's for you or not?

Kim Saxton, MBA, PHD:
4:15

I think in tandem with that, it's really important to recognize that there aren't opportunities laying around like, you know, it's not like you had a metal detector on the beach and you're just going to find, you know, the gold to bloom. And there you go. You're going to have to create the opportunities. And so 1 of my favorite examples is an MBA student of ours a few years ago. She loved Victoria's secret underwear. And when she got pregnant, there was. Well, well, I mean, maternity underwear was not attractive. And so she decided, I think I should launch a line of sexy maternity underwear. I mean, why should women be left out? So she went and sold at Victoria's Secret for six months. To understand what do women look like, look for, what are the questions they ask? What are the products they like? Why do they like them? What sits around? It has to be discounted. I mean, she really learned about the business before she even started really thinking about what's my business now going to be.

Stoy Hall, CFP®:
5:12

And I'm sure your guys answers will be the same as mine as this, but the best, most successful businesses out there do one thing. And that is. Provide a solution to someone's problem. Like that's right. That's business 101. If you can't do that or don't know how to, and it's very muddy, then go work at no, go work somewhere, figure it out for six months. Something like that

Kim Saxton, MBA, PHD:
5:34

as well. Now, the best easiest way is to find a problem that is unsolved and solve it. I have to point out that occasionally you can come up with something that is so amazing that the problem didn't exist. And and so we have to not discount those rare birds. You think of, like, open with chat. It wasn't like a bunch of people were standing around going. Oh, I just need a computer to tell me what to put on this paper. But that was really expensive. To get there, so that's the hard way to do it and you have to be really good if that's the way you're going to do it

Todd Saxton:
6:09

and story, you know, as you talked about, it's not just. Solving a problem for somebody, it's solving it and being able to articulate what your solution does for them in language that they understand. So you looking from afar at what I think is a problem for Kim and me coming up with something and solving and saying. Hey, now you can look, you know, sexier when you're pregnant or what? She looked great when she was pregnant. So she didn't need anything like that. But you know, it's, it's a different thing to really put yourself in that customer's shoes to understand their problem, but also how they talk about it, et cetera, from, from their perspective. And that's a step that we see some entrepreneurs miss in their rush to provide that solution is like. Okay. Hey, here's a solution to and they describe the problem and the customer's like, huh? I don't even think about it that way or use that language. So that's part of that investment of of time and energy is understanding not just the product per se, but but how it solves the problem for the customer and how they talk about that. So we'll get

Stoy Hall, CFP®:
7:12

into, let me, let me back up relationships, right? It's all about trust and communication and listening, right? I've learned that in all my years, 11 years of marriage, right? Listening. And, and that's what you just described to me. That's what the word brought, brought into my brain was we as business owners need to listen to the consumers to truly understand. What issues or problems are having to then adjust whatever we're doing for that solution. And if you're not and you're hard brained or think that you have it, they just need to adapt. Yeah, I don't think you're going to be very successful.

Kim Saxton, MBA, PHD:
7:48

Well, I have worked with we have worked with a number of small business owners over time, and some do think if I just put it out there, they will come. Well, you know what? The most common thing that people do. Is either nothing or what they're already doing. If you have something new, you have to get them to change their behavior to adopt your new thing. If you don't listen very well, you're going to be really easy to ignore.

Todd Saxton:
8:13

Yes. Well, when you raise, you talked about relationships in regards to the customer, the consumer, but you also raised another dimension that's super important, which is. You have other relationships, you have family members, you have lights that you're helping keep on with your partner. They are part of both the challenge and the opportunity. And I believe earlier disclosure, bringing them in, making sure you have their support is really important because it's very unfortunate to see, you know, an entrepreneurial situation where. Things start to crumble on the personal front, even though the business is doing okay. So that's an important part of the web of relationships that can be a really good support mechanism and can be really helpful, but can also, if you don't manage that relationship be be a bit of a

Stoy Hall, CFP®:
9:07

challenge. Yeah, and I'll, I'll piggyback that and go a step further. It's also with yourself. You have to know who the hell you are to be able to be successful. Cause if you don't, it's going to show whether it's in your personal relationships, business it doesn't matter. You have to, you really have to know who you are. Give me some insight onto that. And I don't, and I didn't ask you this before. So this is one of those out of left field. I promised when working with someone or someone in the business perspective that hasn't thought through like. Who they are, what are some steps, maybe a couple of pointers that someone can do to recognize? Like, okay, I don't I'm not 100% comfortable. I don't know who I am, but I know I need to be to be successful.

Kim Saxton, MBA, PHD:
9:48

So we've seen 2 different routes. So I can tell you early on. We were working with a company and they were like. We're going to build this and sell it for millions of dollars. And that's why we're here. We're like, it's pretty hard to do that. Are you really sure that you have the fortitude it takes? So you need to have the passion about it. So don't get involved in something where you really don't feel like I need to change this thing. That is just interesting. Also had a student was like, I definitely want to start a business. What business do you think I should start? It's like, well, we can. We can't really tell you that you're going to have to find it for yourself because it's hard. It's going to take a lot. You're going to be days where it's just all problems, solving problems, no money, no help. You know, things crashed. What are you going to do if you don't have the inner fortitude? You know, you just changed 1 master for another master and you don't like that one either. That would be my 1st answer. What about you, Todd?

Todd Saxton:
10:51

Yeah, so what comes to mind for me is and you may have covered it in different podcasts, but the idea of kind of imposter syndrome that that people get into this situation. And as Kim was saying, they're 2 approaches. 1 is to just bluff your way through and, and. This is no B. S. right? Not the B. S. If you just want to bluff through and fake it till you make it, go listen to a different podcast because, you know, everyone, every successful entrepreneur, we know we're fortunate to be connected to an alum who's. Had multiple successes in on the West Coast, taking 3 companies public and and 2 acquired by large organizations. And, you know, later in his career, he's, he's calling us and saying, man, I'm getting into this health care thing. And and I just feel out of my element. I don't understand. You know, this is someone who has been very, very successful and yet has the self awareness to say, Hey, there's part of this that I just don't get and I need some help and having that honest conversation, not just with yourself, but then figuring out who are the people that I can turn to are going to tell it to me straight, but also provide helpful information, not just be discouraging and building that cadre of folks that can be part of your support network is, I think, a really important step in that journey of self awareness that you're talking about.

Stoy Hall, CFP®:
12:15

Yeah, and it's to be vulnerable to like yesterday. I think it was last night. I literally posted on Facebook That being a business owner sucks. You have to embrace the suck, right? I said it's a grind but embrace the suck and I really posted that because I wanted everyone to understand that All of us are in that same boat. There, there is the business owners. I know, anyways, I don't think there's any out there that have not had to do that grind or in the grind and you have to embrace the suck. And I stole that from the Navy seals, of course. But it was funny cause I posted that and that one blew up and a lot more conversations came out of it. Because all of the business owners were like, yes, like, yes, that. And I, I wanted to point that out is because build that network to understand that there's others out there. They might not be in your industry, they might not even be in your same state, but there's others out there that can help you in ways that you don't know, because we're all going through the same thing. It just looks a little different.

Kim Saxton, MBA, PHD:
13:12

Yeah, and I think that's 1 of the things that's been a blessing with the coworking spaces. So a lot of the coworking spaces are places for, you know, business owners to find others to get help more, more inexpensively than maybe if you were looking through the yellow pages, but also to have some social events that help. You bring it together so that there's others to share the burden. I can tell you, I was on the board member of the startup ladies here in Indianapolis and the the person who started that, you know, it's like, oh, my gosh, I have got to do something because every time we have a meeting, I spend another half an hour in the parking lot. Because people need to download and they need and so she started building in meetings that were called mental health for entrepreneur sessions, just so that everyone would know it's not a you're normal. This is totally normal. This is. You know, this is what people are going through and also to get some help. Sometimes they're, you know, somebody just copied me. Okay, you can do some things about that. Or, you know, my employee just left and stole my client list. Okay, you can do something about that. But you don't know what those things are unless somebody is helping you.

Todd Saxton:
14:23

I was going to say, and it even goes so far. As if you have the kind of company that going out and raising external funds and looking for investors, which is not right for every business. And so this is a sidelight, but don't get trapped into that myth that the only successful entrepreneurs are those that, you know, go out and raise a 1Million dollars or something. That also is B. S. and, you know, knowing what kind of business you want to start and whether you need funding or 1 funding to grow it is really important. But also there's this tendency. For entrepreneurs as they get to that stage, or as they reflect and talk about their journey, whether they're raising money or not. To focus on the wins, right? And then we did this and it took off and then that was a positive inflection point. But particularly for those that are savvy around startups. It's like, I don't want to know about the times that you, you know, your opponent fell down and you've caught the ball and ran in and scored the touchdown. I wonder about the time that you slipped in the mud and fell and fumbled and then got back up and tackle the guy who who got the ball. So it's being and again, it's that vulnerability, right? Being able to share that journey and how you learn from that and hopefully got better. And the business got stronger as the result is is part of the narrative. It's part of who you are. It's part of who the business is. And I think people who have been around. Startups and small businesses understand that and actually appreciate that and like to see the full journey, not just the wins.

Kim Saxton, MBA, PHD:
15:51

Well, and to that point, 1 of our hot topics lately has been this concept of pivots, which is like, I started in 1 direction and that wasn't working. And I had to change directions and it's really hard in some circles. That scene is like a negative when actually it should be seen as a positive. Of course, you didn't get it right. What makes you think you would have gotten it right? Right off the. Out the bat, I mean, how many things have you ever done for the 1st time and did right? So the key is really to pivot, but to stay planted somewhere and, you know, like, in basketball, you can only move 1 leg or foot. And so what you want to do is think about. What's my next best option and how do I experiment and then it's a series of experiments instead of like, wildly changing directions, make small pivots so that you can learn what the market back to that listening so that you can are always adapting and changing, but definitely don't think that you're like, going to come up with a perfect idea, launch it in, like, all the money is going to flow to you. And it's all going to be awesome.

Stoy Hall, CFP®:
16:55

And when you do pivot, by the way, that friends meme just popped in my head with Roscoe and pivot, but besides that when you do do that, you have to be okay with, there's going to be losses, right? You're either going to lose clients or you're not going to gain clients. You're not going to grow as much, but if you don't try to figure those things out, then where are you going to be? I did the same thing, right? With my business partner, the last five years, it took me five years to recognize this, but broke free and. And realize that like a lot of it was just being held to the same monotony and not able to pivot because of being scared losing clients, whatever it is. But ultimately if you don't do that, then you got to reflect on yourself and now you're starting to think like, what if, or, you know, all of those rabbit holes that we've all been through, you don't want to do that either.

Todd Saxton:
17:44

But I

Kim Saxton, MBA, PHD:
17:44

think you gave it time. I mean, I sometimes see people like, oh, oh, 3 months. So that doesn't work. Let's like, go over here and then over to your period. You hardly know who they are anymore. You know, you want to give it some time and see if it's working.

Stoy Hall, CFP®:
18:00

Maybe that's what I was actually going to pivot into is longevity journey. We talked about journey a lot. In the wealth side of things and because it's never ending, right? And the wealth you're always until you die, you're, you're trying to build your wealth, whatever, whatever that looks like for you and your legacy. And in business. When we talk short term we're usually talking like a year or three, right? Long term for us is 10 plus. And I wanted to highlight that and get your opinion on that too, is when we're talking to others and others are thinking of starting a business and like, Ooh, in the short term, but they're thinking three to six months in some businesses that works, but how. How awful, not awful, wrong word, aggressive, how bad is it to think that way when really in business, you should be thinking, you know, year, 2 years as a short term, not, you

Todd Saxton:
18:51

know, 3 months. We have a term that we borrowed from mountain biking in mountain biking, and we went through training. We were in Moab. It was awesome. And they talk a lot about the now and the next. I don't know if you've done any mountain biking, but, you know, if you're out mountain biking. Yes, you need to be aware of what is directly underfoot. There could be snakes. There could be cacti. You know, you want to know what's right around you, but you also got to be looking 5 to 10 feet out. Because the trail is going to turn and you need to know when to slow down and be able to make that turn, et cetera. So that's the now and the next. And then the 3rd part. Is the navigation and and that's that more far sighted, like, what is the overall journey look like if you go back to some of the work that, like, Jim Collins did on on vision in built to last and companies that are sustained and and last over time and provide value over time. They have a set of core values of things they, they care about that are pretty unchanging. Yes, there are pieces where of your business where you're going to pivot and change in new directions, but there are also parts that you need to sit back and reflect on that overall journey. Some of the research suggests, and we would encourage entrepreneurs spend about half a day a week on that navigation piece, that stepping back, not doing the 1 to 3 months, but that 3 to 5 years. Are you still heading to that paradise island that you were hoping to get to? Because if you're madly, you know, rowing bailing and, you know, putting up sales and your ship is way off course you're spending a lot of wasted effort on a direction that isn't fulfilling that isn't getting you where, where you want it to go in the long run. So spending half a day a week again on that. Stepping back navigation piece, and that might require not just you in a room, right? But, but you with some of those mentors that we talked about that you're, you're sharing that journey with others, getting their probing questions and answering them. And I think that's 1 way to help balance that shorter term versus medium to longer term that you're referring to.

Kim Saxton, MBA, PHD:
20:52

The other thing is that we like to think about these companies that have been successful as being overnight successes. If overnight means 10 to 15 years, then yes, they were overnight successes. But there's a lot that we, we don't see that's going on there. We have an interesting database of all the companies in Dun Bradstreet that were under a hundred employees. Something like 52% of them stayed the exact same size for 15 years. That is the norm, you know, that's okay. You don't have to be always growing, but, you know, then we have some that have really positive growth trajectories. If you can build to a stable base of, you know, that you're happy with that needs of you and your family and your goals. That's awesome. I mean, I worked with a small company here that was about 5 million, you know, they had 2 owners. I was spitting off 2 million a year in cash. They were trying to grow it. I was like, I'm just curious, like, what do you want to accomplish with the growth? You've got a million dollars a year each for the two owners. Where are you going? Good. Well done.

Stoy Hall, CFP®:
22:01

right? You want more headaches?'cause when you grow there's just more headaches. like you, millions should be good. But we do the same thing, Rick. We talk to business owners and like, what do you truly want outta your, outta your thing? The business is the business. You can grow it and you can. Downgrade it if you wanted to, but like, what are you good and comfortable with from a family situation? And that's what I've defined. What true wealth is true. Wealth is not about the dollars. It's about your family, your time commitment, what you want to leave your legacy as and ultimately, are you happy once you get to that point? I don't think you need to grow anymore, at least from a monetary business perspective, always keep growing as a person. But once you get to that and you're truly wealthy, what else really is there? Why, why go from a million to. 10 million, like, what's going to change you can't buy or you can't always buy more, but like, come on,

Kim Saxton, MBA, PHD:
22:56

well, it was interesting for them in particular. They were launching all these new products. They decided to grow by launching a bunch of new products and they weren't doing well. And so they were like, well, what are we doing wrong? And so I was like, well, let's just start with how many salespeople do you have a few. Fully penetrate the market based on the number of sales people that you've employed. They're like, oh, that's a great idea. So they, you know, add a salesperson and added 50% more revenue to sales person, double the business. I'm like, okay, that's easy stuff. We don't have to worry about new products, right?

Stoy Hall, CFP®:
23:33

Absolutely. All right, let's take a little pivot. Like we talked about earlier, let's go out of the strategy vision, which we've been in and let's go more to the, to the marketing. So everyone's got, they're on board. They know what they want to do. We've got our strategy. We understand it. Talk to us about how marketing works in today's standards.

Kim Saxton, MBA, PHD:
23:50

Yeah, I think that some truisms are, are still the same as they've always been, which is you definitely have to solve a need. Nobody is going to change their behavior unless you're meeting an unmet need for them in a way that they're willing to pay for. So that's. Like, really particularly key. The 2nd thing is really that you have to give people a reason to buy you. So you have to differentiate yourself. You have to know what it is, is the value that you're creating for them and be able to communicate that to them that I often see is the biggest miss. A lot of times new ideas come and they talk all about. What the new idea is, you know, and let's just take the iPod, for example, you know, it's it when it came out, it was, you know, it's had a 520 megabytes of storage and it can store 3000 songs. Okay, so what right? Why are you talking to me about features? What does this do for me? Oh, well, you can play music uninterrupted 4000 hours. Oh, well, that is cooler. I probably don't need 1000 hours. That's a really long run. I mean, I think I could do all right with just 2 hours. But, you know, to reframe it so that you're talking to people about what they get from something, the benefits, those are the things that they want to pay for. And then the last thing is. It's data, there's so much data available right now. And for smaller businesses, it's really hard to afford the software to be able to leverage your data. But I'm stunned at how many people never look at their own data. So I was working with an architect and this person wasn't winning any contracts. And then we looked at their. Customer base, and we looked at where the growth for architectural needs were all of the RFPs that they were going after were not in growth markets. Like, somehow over 2 year period, they had shifted from customers who were growing to customers who were shrinking and we're like, just pivot back to where you were 2 years ago. And then they started winning contracts, right? So look at your data. Another small business I worked with had 165 SKU's. That is a lot of products. Okay. 22 of them generated any meaningful revenue. Simplify your business. You know, not every idea is a great idea. Maybe doesn't need a market.

Todd Saxton:
26:15

We haven't made it explicit, but I think, and I'm sure you understand this, but to make it clear for the listeners. I think some people confuse marketing with advertising, right? So it says, oh, what do you post? What's your logo look like? What color scheme is going to win? But marketing as Kim is talking about is a lot about data. It's about knowledge of your customers, what they want, what they're purchasing, what's profitable for your organization. And the other piece I want to come back to just to make sure we're connecting the dots is it's not like you come up with a vision and strategy. And then it's sequential where you move to marketing. Ideally, there's this iterative process. That's part of the whole kind of lean startup mentality, right? Where you, you have some initial hypotheses about your strategy and what's going to work, but then you go interact with your customers, test it, ask them for a. A letter of intent in that if you actually develop this and offer it for a certain price that they will buy it, right? You can do that with with business organizations as a customer and that gives you the confidence. So don't be satisfied with just a, oh, yeah, that looks great. And then go spend 200, 000 dollars building something interact with your customers, use the marketing and the data generated from that. To inform your strategy so that you have more confidence and better knowledge moving forward.

Kim Saxton, MBA, PHD:
27:36

And the last piece I will add is about the whole digital thing, like marketing is digital. So that means no, you cannot be a business and have a Facebook page. Only you need a real honest to goodness website. They're complete packages Shopify, Squarespace, Wix, whomever that are easy to use and cost you. 200 a year. You spend the money, get a website. And when you do, there's a lot of stuff you can automate through email. So that one company I told you about that wanted to grow and had all these new products, 85% of their customers ordered online and they never sent out an email about their new products. Oh, wow. Yeah. Oh, wow.

Stoy Hall, CFP®:
28:20

Yeah. I think that's just impressive. Like, I mean, it's not good, but like, that's

Todd Saxton:
28:26

just impressive.

Stoy Hall, CFP®:
28:29

They didn't know

Kim Saxton, MBA, PHD:
28:29

how to write emails. They didn't know the logic behind email marketing. You know, they didn't, they were manufacturing organization. They didn't even have a marketing person. And when they did, they created a catalog book for people to look through. What

Stoy Hall, CFP®:
28:42

year was this?

Kim Saxton, MBA, PHD:
28:44

This was not that long ago. Let's just say it was in the, in the, you know, 2000.

Todd Saxton:
28:49

Oh, wow. So circling back to an earlier part of the conversation and some of what you were referencing 2 signals that we see. Organizations arrive at that we think are really important as kind of metrics of you've come a long way and you're, you're at a new inflection point. 1 of those is when you say no to your 1st customer. Because as you were saying, you have that tendency to like, oh, yes, yes. Oh, yeah, we can do that, especially early on. And you have to do that, right? Just to get some money in the door and to know what's working and what isn't. But at some point, being able to say. You know, you're not the right customer for us. We're not the right solution for you. That's a real landmark event in the journey of of an entrepreneur. Go ahead.

Kim Saxton, MBA, PHD:
29:34

Well, and secondly, is the 1st time you sell to a stranger. Yeah, and maybe those 2 are in the opposite order, right? So your 1st sale to a stranger is pretty cool. And then you have to say, no, that's also pretty cool. But at some point, you do have to look at unit economics and understand. Is it costing you more to get this customer than they're worth? You know, every business has to do that and make some hard choices when, when it's not.

Stoy Hall, CFP®:
30:00

So how does a business one achieve and figure out their data? We don't need to go into reading data. Cause I'm sure that's a longer podcast. Okay. So how do I get my data and what do I do with it? And then there is a split between data and advertising. At what point in time do they mix? When do you use 1 before the other? Are they the same kind of give us some details

Kim Saxton, MBA, PHD:
30:23

there? Well, there's a lot there. So I can give you an example of organization that ran a bunch of paid meetings. So you could come and do this event and this event, this event, and they kept every single event as a separate spreadsheet. And so it's like, well, we need to upload that to something and turns out HubSpot offers a free CRM software. That's what you want to do. That's 1 tool you can use, but there's other tools you could use. And if you just get everybody into an Excel spreadsheet, where the rows are people and the columns are their activities with you, whether it's events, they attended or products they purchased, or, you know, whatever, then you can start to look at and say, oh, well, how many people have never come back. I worked with a small business that was an oil chain shop, and he got everybody's license plate number. That was the only data that he collected. So we had to change that because you can't email car license plates. Not

Todd Saxton:
31:18

yet. No, no, no nail apparently.

Kim Saxton, MBA, PHD:
31:22

You know, 1st thing we did is look, you know, oh, well, only 45% of your people are returning when the market average is 75%. So simple, did they ever come back or not? You see the same car twice. And then, you know, you, you can add it up from there. I just was talking to a small business owner last week who had 17, 000 rows in Excel, but it was. The rows were products like, let's say I went and I bought 4 things. I was 4 rows. Got it. So the rows have to be people. And the columns have to do be their activities and you can look, do they go to the website? Did they register? Did they make a purchase? Did they leave a tip? Did we have to ship it? And now, then you can start to see, like, what are people doing? What is selling? What isn't selling and get away from your gut, you know?

Todd Saxton:
32:13

Well, the other thing I would say to. As a potential source of support, and we do this very actively with our students at all levels, but go to your local university and see if they have a digital marketing or marketing analytics class. And and this may be appropriate for, for some of your, your listeners and and not for others, but you know, reach out to sources like that. There are. Chambers of commerce groups like score and others that do support businesses that if you're really uncomfortable with data, like. The, even the thought of opening up an Excel spreadsheet, you're kind of like, and I know they're really good business owners that are just not all that excited about looking at lines of data. And I get that, but at the same time, understanding it and organizing it can be so powerful. So just having a little help explaining. How to help organize the data so you can at least start to draw some meaningful conclusions, like, you know, when you have all your data organized as at the product level and individual purchase level, and then the cuffs are named, you know, appears in column 5 is spread out all over it's going to be really hard to put together a marketing campaign around that. You know, understanding what data you have, how to organize it and where you can use it. There are external resources that can help you with things like that. Universities might be one starting point that are pretty cost effective for and not spending, you know, tens of thousands of dollars on a

Kim Saxton, MBA, PHD:
33:40

consultant. Yeah, I mean, universities are loving hands on, client based, and analytics. Everybody everywhere is trying to learn analytics. You know, you might be able to tap into it. I've had plenty of people who just emailed me all the blue ones, like, here's my problem, can you help me? And we end up doing class projects with them.

Stoy Hall, CFP®:
33:57

That's awesome. And you read my mind cause I was next going to be like, so your day jobs at Kelly school of business at IU, tell us about it, but you went into it a little bit there. I, I have some IU background, mainly the head football coach coached me at Drake, so I have some ties to Indiana. That being said, I want to ask, pose this question. I think I might know your answer, but I want you to answer it. Is it more, or are you seeing more people going to college traditionally? Or are you seeing people who haven't and are coming back to get specific courses, like analytics or vision or whatever it is?

Kim Saxton, MBA, PHD:
34:34

Well, the universities are seeing a real mix because of the pandemic and the experience that was there, you know, some people decided to skip out on college and or find a way to do college online. Definitely, but the bulk of people, we're still seeing that the bulk of people are moving towards getting a college education. Like, I said, the numbers are down, like, maybe 8%. I mean,

Todd Saxton:
35:00

that's part of that is just demographics and size of the student population.

Kim Saxton, MBA, PHD:
35:06

But I think there is a movement afloat to have more skills 1st training, whether that's through the community college or apprentice programs. I mean, I think there's a good move towards there's a variety of ways to successfully educate yourself. And so traditional universities might be 1 avenue, but other. Options are there too. It's more about fitting what how you're going to learn with your lifestyle and your preferences. So if you go to the university, and it's just not doing it for you, that doesn't mean you don't get trained. I mean, we just heard of a friend's son who went into the air force to get his training smart guy just did not like traditional, you know, university and you know, he can get exactly where he wants to go that way too.

Todd Saxton:
35:52

Yeah, I think, you know, partly address your, your question. The educational landscape is really diversifying and, you know, universities talk about lifelong learning and give it some, some lip service over the past, you know, 10 plus years. But the reality is. You cannot get what you need as a base of education that will help you for the rest of your life. We were already talking about, like, the Internet and innovations that the current generation of undergrads never lived without. We will not be able to comprehend. Even they will see innovations in 10 to 15 years. That don't exist today that we can't possibly fathom what they look like, and that leads to a very dynamic landscape about the kinds of tools that you need. So I think, yes, an undergraduate degree can give you a really good base knowledge. But the reality is, you're going to have to continue to reinvest in learning new technologies, new approaches. There are tons of certificate and badging courses out there, particularly in the marketing arena. That are relatively inexpensive, they give you specific skills and you can actually put that in your resume as a certificate that you've earned. And and I think organizations are becoming increasingly appreciative of it's not just, you know, the degree and, and, you know, whether it was a top 20 school or whatever, but what did you actually do? And being able to tell that story to employers, being able to use that That training in what you're doing as a small business owner or founder that's what that's what really matters and good universities are getting that and tailoring more and more of their programs to a mix of hands on activities. We actually have to apply get out of the classroom, interact with others. And I think the whole educational landscape is, is being disrupted right over the last 5 to 10 years, and we'll continue to do so and good universities will adapt to that and continue to offer value. A good consumer recognizing is, as Kim was suggesting, there are lots of ways to get that training and and you're never going to be done. I like it

Kim Saxton, MBA, PHD:
38:02

or not. You have CFP after your name. So that's outside of university, but you need that for the professionalism. I mean, PMP is a certification that we see a lot that also can pay extra money and things for. Product management professional. Just like a month ago, I went and got my email marketing search certification. I mean, I've been doing email marketing. I know how to optimize it, but I thought, Hey, I got to see what my students are doing. And won't, won't be a bad thing to have on my resume either.

Stoy Hall, CFP®:
38:33

Yeah, keep learning. It's a journey. Your wealth's a journey. Your education's a journey. Keep learning and continue to be the best person that you can. As we wrap up, I want each one of you to leave one tip, one tidbit, just one, one tidbit to the audience in any, which direction you want to go with it.

Kim Saxton, MBA, PHD:
38:53

Mine is keep asking questions, you know, you see something, you're like, I wonder why that is like, how did that come to be? I've do a little research. It could be really interesting to find out things that you never knew. And it could be about nature, you know, or it could be about a product offering. It could be a company. I mean, I find interesting things every day that give me ideas for new businesses.

Todd Saxton:
39:19

I'll focus a little bit on action versus inaction and take the step, do something, right? Do something to learn more about, go take a job in the market where you think you want to start a company. So many people, I think are, are enamored with the idea of starting a business, whether it's a side gig or a full time thing. But it's that 1st step it's, it's like, you know, getting off the computer doing background research. It's like, stopping just talking about it and take a step move forward, whether it's meeting with somebody potential customer describing, you know, the idea that you have in your head. That's that's going to evolve you know, start exploring. How do I actually move this thing forward and take that 1st step? And. Thank you. And what you'll find is that you're going to learn, you're going to stumble, you're going to make mistakes, but that once you start that process of moving forward you, you can build traction and get to those inflection points. But if you don't take the 1st step, you're never going to get there. So

Kim Saxton, MBA, PHD:
40:20

he says that and I'm always remembered that I'm like a fair weather runner. I look out and I'm like, oh, it looks cloudy. It might rain. I'm not going to go. And then when I push myself and I get out the door, I inevitably have a great. Run, and even if it sprinkles a little bit, I'm sort of like, Oh, it's not, I don't get to run in the rain that often. This is pleasant. So that doesn't hurt to take a step.

Stoy Hall, CFP®:
40:40

No, it doesn't. And if you're looking for a business school to take a step to which business school should they go

Kim Saxton, MBA, PHD:
40:45

to? We teach at the Indiana University, Kelly school of business. We have an online MBA. We have full time MBA. We have a part time MBA. We have. Certificates, masters of science. I mean, pretty much anything you could want. And we have

Todd Saxton:
40:58

us. I mean, you know,

Stoy Hall, CFP®:
41:00

most importantly, it's you too. Duh. Hello, people.

Kim Saxton, MBA, PHD:
41:04

Well, we do teach in the online program. So there's a good chance that you would get us. Here

Stoy Hall, CFP®:
41:09

we go. Kim Todd fun. This was very fun. And enlightening again, we haven't gone that deep into some of the strategy behind it as well. And data has not been brought up from the analytical side for marketing either. It's always social media based. So I appreciate your time. I look forward to getting this out and having you back on here, maybe come the first of the year, but I definitely appreciate your, your

Todd Saxton:
41:31

time. Well, thank you been a pleasure and a fun conversation and hope your listeners our listeners get get some benefit from it.

Kim Saxton, MBA, PHD:
41:39

We love what you're doing. Yeah. Keep helping people build their wealth. Thank you. The proceeding program was sponsored by Black Mammoth. Any awards, rankings, or recognition by unaffiliated third parties or publications are in no way indicative of the advisor's, future performance, or any individual client's investment success. No award ranking or recognition should be construed as a current or past endorsement of black mammoth. Information regarding specific awards, rankings, or recognitions is available on the Black Mammoth website, www.black mammoth.com. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. Investment strategies such as asset allocation, diversification, or rebalancing do not assure or guarantee better performance and cannot eliminate the risk of investment losses. There are no guarantees that a portfolio employing these or any other strategy will outperform a portfolio that does not engage in such strategies. This broadcast should not be construed by any client or prospective client as a solicitation to affect or attempt to affect transactions and securities or the rendering of personalized investment advice due to various factors including changing market conditions. The information discussed in this broadcast may no longer be reflective of current positions or recommendations. While information presented is believed to be factual and up to date, Black Mammoth do not guarantee its accuracy, and it should not be regarded as a complete analysis of the subjects discussed. The tax and the state planning information discussed is general in nature and is provided for informational purposes only, and should not be construed as legal or tax advice. Listeners should consult an attorney or tax professional regarding their specific legal or tax situation. Past performance is not indicative of future results.