We Filed. But Did We Learn Anything?

Morgan Anderson

0:21

Well then it's time.

File First, Figure It Out Later

Stoy Hall

0:29

Text it. We filed, we're done. We either get a refund or we owe Woo, but did we learn anything from it or did we just survive another season? I think a lot of us just kind of survive. But the thing is, did we actually learn from it? Did we actually file'em correctly? Incorrectly? Do we know if we did or not? That's where we need to, to focus on. And, and Morgan's obviously here, uh, to guide us through that. And we were just talking off air. She's got some stats that her team's been researching that is, uh, mind boggling. Um mm-hmm. And we're gonna dive into those, but without further ado, laying the groundwork for tax day. And do we actually know what we're doing or not doing? Um, Morgan, paint us a little more of that picture of what people are going through, um, in terms of, Hey, we filed, but. But you know what I mean.

Morgan Anderson

1:23

Right, right. And you know, if you are in a position where you've pulled your tax return together and there's a balance owed and you don't know what to do, one of the first things I want you to hear from this episode is no matter what, file the return. If you have to deal with a balance owed, it's always good to file the return on time because if not, you open the door for penalties to start being assessed and those penalties get aggressive. Late filing penalties start at 5% of the unpaid tax every month and max out at 25%. So if you're looking at a tax return that says you owe$20,000. If you don't file and if you sit there and hold it, you could end up with a 25% penalty on it in just five months. So make sure that first things, first, file the return. Even though there's a balance owed, you can still deal with it at a later date.

Stoy Hall

2:29

When we, for those that are, are sitting, whether they have filed or not filed, and we're talking about, Hey, just make sure you do file. There are other options too, right? There is extensions. Mm-hmm. Can you talk through what extensions do in terms of with the penalty interest and how those work as well?

What an Extension Actually Does (and Doesn't Do)

Morgan Anderson

2:45

Sure. With, with an extension, it is an extension of time to file the return. Not to pay the tax that's owed. So if you filed your return in October under a valid extension, but you still have a balance due on that return, they're gonna charge you late payment penalties going back to April 15th, because April 15th is the date to file and pay, and the extension only gives you time to file.

Stoy Hall

3:17

That's a big point. It's huge. It's a massive point. Now, I know we all know what you deal with and deal with all the consequences of us all making mistakes, but you just said file, right? It's more important to just get it filed than to deal with all of the penalties and et cetera at the end. What if we don't know if the return's accurate or not at that time period? Do we still file.

Morgan Anderson

3:39

There's two ways to handle that and that's, this is a really good question. One is to file an extension until you make sure you have all the records, your 10 90 Ns, your W twos, the K one from your businesses, and a lot of small and medium sized, even large business owners or or shareholders. You have to wait for that K one to come out corporations and. Medium sized businesses and even some small file extensions to file their return. If it's an S corp, it's due September 15th, right? So you can't get the K one from it until then. So you're stuck in a situation where you do need to file an extension. But if you are, let's say you're a sole proprietor and you file your business' information on a Schedule C on your 10 40, and you just don't have your books ready to go, you just don't know what to do, you can file an estimated return due April 15th and then file an amended later, or you can file an extension to file the return once you feel like all the data is really dialed in. So there's two different, two different ways to handle it. The big thing though, is any tax you may owe, when you file an extension and you file later, you're gonna end up with pay with penalties on failure to pay. If you don't pay that amount by April 15th.

Stoy Hall

5:06

So you're saying is, if I don't for sure know, file an extension. You are not saying, Hey, just file it regardless with heirs or admissions anyway. However, be prepared that you potentially will have those penalties back to that day if you do owe. Now, I know from a personal experience, and I know that from me personally, but also with clients, that sometimes you can also write a letter and they will forgive some of those penalties and stuff like that. You actually have proof behind the purpose and the reasoning of everything going on. Correct? So don't everyone just freak out immediately about, oh, I'm gonna have all these penalties, like they do work with you. They do understand there are circumstances. I would say don't do that every year, right? Like, don't make it a comment thing, they'll deny you. But you know, if, if you're listening to this today and going, oh shit, well there, there are some remedies, um, as well. So don't, don't just kill yourself because of that, right? Let's talk through it and in 20, let's mix it.

Morgan Anderson

6:00

Absolutely. And in 2026, the IRS is supposed to implement and activate an automatic first time abatement program. Now, none of us in the industry really know how they're gonna implement this. It could be a disaster coming at all of us, and it could make for a lot of administrative errors and time that you need to spend working it out. But the key is with a first time abatement. You have to have not had the same penalty charged within the three prior years. So in 26, they're supposed to automatically be issuing a, Hey, you have a penalty. But because it's your first time in the last three years, we're gonna forgive it. We'll wait and see how that comes about. But you are able to ask for an abatement of penalties. And if as long as you haven't had the similar penalty in the prior three. Tax years.

Killing the Noise on Tax Myths

Stoy Hall

6:58

Yeah. It'll be interesting to see that. I feel like when they always throw those things out, the the idea's great.

Morgan Anderson

7:04

Mm-hmm.

Stoy Hall

7:05

The actual implementation is usually a cluster.

Morgan Anderson

7:08

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Stoy Hall

7:10

Alright, well let's kill, let's kill some noise because we both know this and a lot of others know this, that, that tax advice. Advice online that we receive. I'll use a, I'll use a nice term, is very reckless for the most part, right? I can definitely use different words, but we're gonna go with reckless and so we're just gonna bring up a couple of normal. I guess takes that we all hear and see all the time, and I want to get your opinion on it. Mm-hmm. From both a truth factor or just in, in general what your, your, uh, opinion is on them. So we've already hit upon the first one, which is kind of just normal, is just file an extension and you'll be fine. Right. It's just paperwork. You don't have to worry about anything we've talked about. There's still penalties that you have to pay if you owe, but this one, this one I think probably hits. Yes, business owners, but more of the W2 only people, the most when we hear this, if you owe, you did something wrong.

Morgan Anderson

8:06

Oh gosh, no. That's so wrong. It all has to do with your withholding, you know, when you file that piece of, of paperwork, the W four outlining. What you're gonna have deducted from your paycheck, you have to make sure that it is done properly because that signifies to your employer how much to take out of your paycheck every pay period, and turn over to the government on your behalf, and it's reflective of the total tax that you're gonna end up paying throughout the year. Related to your income, the size of your family, your deductions, all of that is factored into you determining on Form W four, what your employer should withhold. I've had a lot of situations where people say, well, somebody told me to claim nine dependents on there when I calculate my tax, because then I'll have little amounts of income tax withheld, and they don't think through that. There is a trend on social media telling people to claim nine in 10 on their W fours, and I'm just like, don't you know this is gonna result in people owing tax when they file their tax returns. But there are so much shortsighted advice being given out. There's a lot of people who say, don't file and pay taxes because our system is voluntary. That one cracks me up. I'm just like, no, no, no, no.

Your Refund Is Not Free Money

Stoy Hall

9:33

I, I agree. Um, and like, yes, with the w fours and, and business owners, everyone in general, like those can be adjusted throughout the year. It's not a set at once and then like deal with it and deal with the consequences. I think you should do some tax planning or some balancing or estimations, if you will, and make an adjustment to that W four depending on what the situation is for you, right? Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. While you shouldn't be taking nine or 10, maybe it is four or five, maybe it is zero, we don't know your situation, but maybe adjusting that is, is probably best for you.'cause on this next take, I'm gonna give you my opinion on what. You should be at in terms of your refund amount. Anyway, but next take. This one's awesome. This one is probably, probably the top one in the whole tax situation when it comes to refund. Refund equals free money.

Morgan Anderson

10:29

I'm sorry, I don't mean to laugh. That's your money. You paid to the government and the government held it all year. So you lost power over having that money. And there are a lot of people who use it as a savings plan, overpaying in the taxes that they have taken out of their paycheck or they, they make an estimated tax payments throughout the year and they use it as like, well, this is an easy way to have the money not in my hands. In April when I file my return, I'm gonna get that money back and I'm gonna use it to buy new patio furniture or whatever they had their heart set on. It's okay. It's okay, but I know where this is heading, so I'll let you take us there.

Stoy Hall

11:09

I loa that idea. I really do. I get that some people do want to use it as like savings. Like it forces them from a discipline perspective. My planning brain wants to like blow up when it comes to that because cashflow, flexibility is the most important thing to all of our lives when it comes to our money. Mm-hmm. And if you are purposely putting money into something that you couldn't ever touch until you file your taxes, like to me, that that makes my blood curle, like, it makes me wanna vomit a little bit because I agree. Not only are you giving it to our government, to you, however they see fit without interest coming back to you. You are now hopefully getting that money back at some point. But what happens if they get delayed? What happens if, what happens? What happens? Right? Right now you're talking about 12, 18 months, 24 months to get your money. That should already have been in your pocket due. When we all know in life, shit happens all the time to us, right? Yeah. Car repairs, kids this, injury, sickness, who knows? And that extra a hundred, 200, 300 I, some people even have a thousand dollars coming back. Like all of that money. Could be set aside for you for those specific reasons. So for me, I'm gonna challenge you to be more disciplined as a human and an adult, and make sure that we get as close to zero as possible. I prefer everyone owe just a little bit, like a couple hundred bucks. Um, totally agree because I would rather have all of our money that we're using for ourselves throughout the year. Than any amount going, um, on the other side. Now, granted business owners, sometimes we don't have a choice, and we'll get to you guys later, but the rest of us that are more W2, let's try to be at zero and use that money throughout the year or even save it yourself. But at least you have access to it and you can use it when you need it, as opposed to waiting 12, 14, 18 months down the road.

Morgan Anderson

13:01

I agree. I agree. The IRS has a really good tax withholding calculator. Go on their website, use it. It's a free tool. It's not, it takes you maybe five minutes to enter the data and it will help make sure that your W four is computed properly.

Stoy Hall

13:20

Do it. Go to it. We'll have the link somewhere in the description. Do it. Run it. I'm telling you, I know you're like, Hey, but I wanna be a saver. I promise you. Having that flexibility. Will be a lot better for your financial picture and your mental state than waiting to get this big refund come April.

Morgan Anderson

13:37

And if you wanna take it a step further, take that money and put it into a cd, a short term cd, or a short term investment fund somewhere where it's making money for you, not just sitting in the government coffers. And when you get it, you've earned 0% interest on it.

Estimated Payments Aren't Just for the Rich

Stoy Hall

13:56

Agreed. And if you're like, Hey, but I'll touch it, put it into an account that's not attached to your personal checking and savings. Right. So it's, it takes you an extra step, or maybe it takes two to three days to get it, because that will personally set aside and be like, that's too big of a, like I have to double think that. Right, right. It's easy when it's in a card, I swipe it. It's a lot harder when I have to call up Morgan and be like, Hey, I need to move this money. Can I get it? It's gonna take two to three business days. And then you start second guessing going, oh, that money's set aside for a reason. Right. So make it harder for yourself to get to. Alright, next, take. Estimated payments are only for rich people.

Morgan Anderson

14:32

I wish.

Stoy Hall

14:33

I know, right?

Morgan Anderson

14:35

I wish for anybody who has a lot of capital gain tax exposure, self-employed individuals, anybody who has a business and, and you're getting a K one and that none of that money is being taxed, you're not having anybody withholding tax out of it. So you have an obligation to at least four times a year. Make an estimated tax payment. I say they call them quarterly estimated tax payments, but they're not quarterly. It's April, June, September, and then January, so it's like four months, two months. Just think about the easiest way to do it. Your minimum requirement is four payments. But you could calculate it into a monthly payment, if that makes it easier for you. Think of it as another car payment, as much as it stinks to say that amount, but make the process easy on yourself. Something that you know you can manage throughout the month, throughout the quarter, throughout the year. At least have those four payments made. Make them more frequently if it works for you.

Stoy Hall

15:50

And does it really matter what that estimated payment is? Now, I obviously for us, when we do planning and et cetera, we'll get and whittle that down, but for those that really don't know how to figure out that number or take the time, is there like a guideline or, or like a range of what those minimum payments should be?

Morgan Anderson

16:08

Yeah, great question. Use your prior years tax return as a guideline. If you're self-employed, let's say you're a plumber and you just work for yourself. Look at your Schedule C, where you reported your income and expenses for your business last year. Take a look at where your income is this year in comparison and start doing a little bit of algebra, right? Like if my gross income was this and this was my tax last year, and so far my incomes around this percentage, figure out what that equal percentage is on the tax and use that as a guideline. Or get with your bookkeeper and your CPA or enrolled agent,

Stoy Hall

16:51

definitely do all of that, right? Get one promise. You just get one. Makes your life easier.

Morgan Anderson

16:55

Quarterly. Get with them

Stoy Hall

16:57

quarterly.

Morgan Anderson

16:57

We'll,

Stoy Hall

16:57

always, at least quarterly. We'll always be on top of that, right? Yes, always do that. So what happens though, say I do make quarterly payments or my estimated payments'cause they're not quarterly and I have paid too much in, or I haven't paid enough in. How does that affect me

Morgan Anderson

17:11

Too much in, you'll get a refund or you can carry it forward to next year, right? If you have a balance owed, you're gonna end up with a little bit of penalties, little bit of interest on that balance owed as well. You'll just be able to make a payment right away when you file your tax returns, or you can set up some type of short-term payment plan to address the balance if it's too large.

Stoy Hall

17:35

And on that payment or that payment, sorry, on that interest in penalties, is that the 5% again or is that a different calculation?

44 Million Owe the IRS. Here's What Happened.

Morgan Anderson

17:44

Uh, late payment, it would be considered a late payment at that point. When you file your tax returns, that is at 0.5% every month that a balance is due. So it's not quite the same as the late filing penalty, but it does accrue. Interest right now is set quarterly by Congress. For the last two years, it's been at 7% per annum, but it compounds daily. So every day you're adding just a little bit more onto that debt.

Stoy Hall

18:17

Good work. Okay, now that we've hit upon the noise and some truths in our own personal opinions, both personally and professionally, by the way, folks, let's dive into your expert lens in the research that we have teased about on the front side of what you're working on.'cause uh, these, these numbers are something that we have to discuss, like we have to let people know. So throw it at us.

Morgan Anderson

18:39

Okay? Okay, so last filing season. It was tax year 2024 when people filed in. By April of last year, over 44 and a half million individual taxpayers filed with a balance due, and over 30% of them did not have the ability to address it. So they ended up starting to get collection notices. I mean, that's a lot. That was. That was almost 10% more from the prior filing season.

Stoy Hall

19:14

That's, that's such a large, large number. Right. There's 130 million adults, roughly, give or take know. Um, so we're saying like a third of that, right? Like a third of the adults in America filed with a balance and then a third of that number couldn't really afford to pay it.

Morgan Anderson

19:33

Yeah.

Stoy Hall

19:34

Yeah. That's, that's a massive, massive problem. What have you seen is the reason one, the uptick for 10%, but what typically happens of why there is that such, you know, 30% of the 44 million that aren't able to make the payments?

Morgan Anderson

19:53

Honestly, my thought and, and my belief based on the clients that I've seen come to our company who have tax debt issues, it is. Partly economy. You know, our, our country has really been financially unstable for the last two, two and a half years. That has created some problems. A lot of it though, that I see with business owners and individuals who are coming to me is failure to plan, failure to tax plan, and work with a CPA or an enrolled agent. At least on a quarterly basis to touch base and say, okay, here's what we have happening financially. What do we need to do to get ahead of this? There's been this really big push to use online tax return compilation services, whether it's through Intuit free file, TurboTax, and I see the appeal of using them right. It's cheaper, it's easier. You just sit at home, you input your own information, and it spits out your tax return. The problem is when you do those, you have no guidance. You have nobody. You can sit down across the desk from or on a Zoom call or on a phone call and say, Hey, I had a parent that passed away and I stand to inherit this or that. This asset, what do I do to get ahead of this? Or I have a small business and we're really starting to gain traction, and now I'm making more money. What do I need to do? All of us as responsible adults. Need to constantly be managing not just the money in our bank account, but what's happening from a bigger picture. And to have an advocate to sit down and work with, at least on a quarterly basis, to give you guidance from their expertise and their knowledge set that will benefit you. Because there are a lot of people that owe tax that had, they made different steps throughout the year, they would've minimized that impact, but they didn't. They didn't feel or or see the need or the benefit to work with somebody. And then it hurts them in the pocketbook at the end.

Stoy Hall

22:13

I would love to know the stats, like the true stats on that of who self filed and who didn't.

Morgan Anderson

22:17

I know

Stoy Hall

22:18

because also those programs, whether they're AI or generated or whatever they are also don't know all the strategies. Right? Because they're only given what's inputted to them and they're gonna be relatively basic. They're not gonna get into the gray area, if you will. Right. They're not gonna get into the strategies that do have some gray area, but are. Valid and have purpose and driven. And so you're gonna for leave out a lot of those issues. And I think that's, to me, right, that's my gut feeling of why there's such big balances, or not big balances, but balances in general, right? Is because all of those are missing something. They're missing a key thing that, yeah, human may forget or may miss mm-hmm. But have a higher probability of sitting down with, you know, your accountant, your ea, your CPA, that can catch those things or at least prepare you for. What's next, what can happen or the next strategy because yes, I had a divorce or I, you know, I lost a loved one. I'm inheriting money, or I had a kid, or I started a business. You know, like all of those are going to change the trajectory and the strategy for your plan. And if you're not looking at those at least twice a year, preferably quarterly, then you're doing your own self a disservice and a year down the road, going back to mend those doesn't really make sense sometimes either. So now you're just hurting yourself both ways.

Morgan Anderson

23:41

Agree. It's all about trying to stay a step ahead of the impact of what you're doing financially.

Stoy Hall

23:49

Absolutely. Was there any other stats that the team found?

The IRS Can Freeze Your Passport. 279K Already Have.

Morgan Anderson

23:55

So there's a couple that I want to share right now. 80% of the taxpayers that owe the IRS are not in a formal agreement, which is scary. They anticipate right now there's o over 28 million, just just individual taxpayers that have open debts and 80% of them are not addressing it. And the IRS, you know, over the last two years, we've been a little sleepy. They had a lot of funding given to them and then it was taken away. And then we had Doge go in and slash a bunch of employees because of. Internal costs, and there were a lot of people that weren't doing their job, which was a fair assessment. Honestly, I've been working with the IRS for 26 years from this side of the desk, challenging them. I've never had such poor customer service people not wanting to do their job. So they had a, a huge reduction of the staffing and now they're starting to build back up. One of the key areas they're gonna be focusing on after filing season is that 80% of tax debts that are not in a resolution. The other thing I wanted to share with you. Starting in 2015, the federal government passed the FAST Act and it had to do with security and transportation. And what it allowed the IRS to do is starting in 2018, it allow allowed them to send notification to the State Department of people who had grossly high tax debt. That started what they, what they categorized was 50, pardon me,$50,000 or more in individual income tax debt. They were allowed to send a notification to the State Department and ban them from renewing or applying for a new right now. There's over 279,000 taxpayers whose passports have been frozen under this act. And the IRS has been sleepy over the last two years. Like I told you, they're gonna be renewing that program and the focus on that starting after filing season ends in April,

Stoy Hall

26:19

first of all. Whoa.

Morgan Anderson

26:21

Yeah, I know, right?

Stoy Hall

26:22

Didn't even know that was a thing. And that is, wow, that is, that is massive.

Morgan Anderson

26:29

Yeah, and the act actually gives them the ability to cancel an active passport, but they've not taken it to that step yet,

Stoy Hall

26:38

yet,

Morgan Anderson

26:39

but it could be coming. So right now the new threshold for reporting a debt as grossly high is$66,000 for tax, for tax year 2026. So if you owe more than that and you're planning on traveling, know that you're gonna have a problem with your passport.

Installment Agreements and How to Use Them

Stoy Hall

26:58

Unless you probably set up a resolution plan. Right,

Morgan Anderson

27:01

exactly. If you're under an installment agreement plan, if you have an offer in compromise pending, they will acknowledge it and release the hold.

Stoy Hall

27:11

Let's talk through a couple of those resolutions, right? Sure. You just said an offer, and we've talked about installment. What are some options within those that people may not have ever heard of or known of that is truly set up through the IRS and this is what they do for those payment?

Morgan Anderson

27:27

Yeah, sure. Great, great question. For installment agreements, typically you can set up an installment agreement for at least 72 months, as long as the IRS's ability to collect on the debt doesn't expire in that time. So every time you have a tax debt assessed on your tax account, a clock starts ticking. IRS has 10 years from that date to collect on the debt, and if they are unable to do so, the debt falls off. Now, there's a couple of things that you could do as a taxpayer to pause that clock ticking, but that's just a general rule of thumb. They have 10 years to collect on the debt. Now, let's say again, the IRS has been sleepy for the last few years. If there's a renewed interest on some of these debts that are starting to expire or threatening to expire, and what's happening is the IRS is now contacting these taxpayers and either asking you to extend the collection statute, which gives you time to pay over a little bit longer period, or if you have means they're going to be aggressively chasing you to collect the debt. And I mean, 4 0 1 Ks. Investments, CDs, equity in your home. They're really going to up the pressure on people where these debts have been sitting there and they've, they've accrued 25% interest or penalty on them and interest every single year that the debt has been sitting there. So you wanna talk about a debt that was$50,000. Right, add 25% for the penalties and then interest for all of these years that it's been accruing. I mean, these debts can turn into$90,000

Stoy Hall

29:25

and they'll take your passport and

Morgan Anderson

29:26

Yeah, right.

Stoy Hall

29:28

Like that's a lot.

The Plan: Get a Professional and Stop Guessing

Morgan Anderson

29:30

It's a lot. It's a lot. And because the collection statute has, is expiring, they're gonna force you to address it before that date. Right. So it's um, people are finding themselves in really tough situations because they accrued the debt, didn't hear from the IRS for a while. Then they got ankle biter notices. Nothing big happened. So they got lulled into complacency and now the IRS is like, okay, wait a minute. Whoa, now we're really being serious here. You have this debt and we want our money. It's put a lot of taxpayers in a tough situation.

Stoy Hall

30:05

I'm gonna talk to you on the installment side, right? So, okay. Yes. People, you can set it up 72 months. That's a pretty good deal. Yeah. That's a long time period, right? You can pay monthly. I think the, the best advantage of the installment is the timing, right? We just talked about cashflow management. Right. And having the flexibility when you weren't prepared for 3000, 6,000, 2050, whatever, thousands, um, of, of tax.'cause you didn't do your planning. I believe getting an installment and then making extra payments because you can, you could pay it off early. You don't have to just do the six, the 72 months you can Right. Do the seven, two months and pay it off in four months. Right. But make sure it helps with your cashflow, flexibility, and at the end of this whole conversation. Being that it is tax day and some of you are relieved, some of you are stressed. Hopefully all of you learn something both from this conversation, but also from doing your taxes is the simple fact of you need to have flexibility and you need to do planning. I don't care if it's with the professional. No, I do. Please get a professional. Yeah, please. However, at least do some planning. Mm-hmm. Because the, the o, the other side of it is yes. Maybe your passport gets taken, maybe your next refund goes straight to them. Maybe they do attack your 4 0 1 Ks, your CDs, et cetera. You don't want to be in that situation and there's no real avoiding it, right? I don't care what people are saying of don't pay your taxes because it's an optional within our country, or, I don't stand for what's going on in our government right now, so I'm not gonna pay my taxes. I promise you one thing, the country will continue on and you are gonna be putting yourself in a bigger hole. And there's no real outcome or outside of you doing anything. And now if they take your passport, not only are you in a hole, you're stuck in the hole because you can't go anywhere. So please listen to what Morgan has said today with the stats. Please listen to me. Please listen to everyone else who has professional credentials, not you know, all the ones on TikTok professionals, and guide yourself in the manner that you need to.

Morgan Anderson

32:05

Amen.

Stoy Hall

32:07

Amen. Dropped it. So without further ado, please reach out to us if you have any, you know, thoughts or comments or things that you want to go through. I know Morgan's here for that. I'm here for that. And we look forward to the next time that we have you on Morgan as well, and more of those stats. I love the research behind that.

Morgan Anderson

32:25

Boy, I

Stoy Hall

32:26

love seeing that

Morgan Anderson

32:26

we'll have more after filing season and I'm sure it's gonna raise a lot of eyebrows. So in a great nerdy way, right, we're here to talk about money and taxes and all the wonderful, nerdy stuff.

Stoy Hall

32:40

So we'll see you next time. We'll nerd out in the numbers and we'll come back to you.

Morgan Anderson

32:43

Love that. Thank you for having me.

NoBS Wealth

33:00

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