Mhm. Another episode with another badass woman who has a great background, has done amazing things from a founder perspective in the tech world through love and corporate all the above. And we're happy to have her back because you guys don't know this, but we've recorded before a little bit and there's a lot of echo. So we're going to have her back and we're going to go through her story as well. So welcome Sonia. How are you been? How have you been?

Sonia Couto:
1:51

I'm good. I can't complain. Thanks for having me back.

Stoy:
1:55

No problem. So let's let the audience know about your background all the way up until kind of you, where you are right now, and then we'll dive into. Some pros, cons of corporate, what things you can get over and ultimately what, and how you can be a woman in tech and be on top of the world.

Sonia Couto:
2:14

Yeah. So I moved to Canada when I was 10 years old. I'm, I was born in Portugal and little island right off Portugal. And when I started working, I was in the manufacturing space. So I used to do a lot of accounting and operations for So I would go into a facility and figure out how they could automate and make the manufacturing process more efficient. So I did that for a couple of years and then I got recruited into a tech company by an accident and 18 years later, here I am and it is it's I'm so fortunate to say that I fell into something by an accident and I fell in love with it. It is, it's not a job. It's just something I do every day that I really thoroughly enjoy. So I feel really lucky. But yeah, my journey in tech has been long, 18 years building custom applications to building products from the ground up, taking products that had failed and scaling them and rebuilding them and making them successful. That's what I'm really good at. Yeah. Here I am.

Stoy:
3:23

What positions have you held in, in the tech world over these 18 years?

Sonia Couto:
3:27

Yeah. So I've done accounting. I've done, I've been a director of operations. I've been now I'm managing director and and then I've also done like project management business analysis on my official titles have always been managing operations manager. Director of operations. And then I went into managing director.

Stoy:
3:51

That's that amazing and to be in leadership roles like that. How is it being a female in the tech space and being a leader, female in the tech space?

Sonia Couto:
4:01

Yeah. At first it was very lonely. The space has changed so much and there's so much being done to make it more, inclusive for women and things like that, but, At the beginning it was very lonely and you just have to be really scrappy and find your way through. Now the space is a lot better. There's women support groups. There's the whole women in tech movement, which I really love and appreciate. And I think it's also like a lot more women are standing up and saying, how can I, what can I do to support other women? And I'm part of a mentorship program with theforum. ca. I'm on the board of HackerGals, which, HackerGal, which is a not for profit that provides after school programs for to encourage girls to co learn how to code, so they actually teach them how to code, they put on hackathons, so I think being in tech and having gone through the early stages of being a woman in tech, I've gotten to a stage where I'm giving back. And I think that's where the space is. It's just women wanting to give back doing the work so that we can get out of the place where we were years ago, essentially.

Stoy:
5:10

For sure. For sure. What type of opportunities are in tech? Because like when I think of tech, I think of coders and I think of those that Usually own the business that are fundraising. I don't really know that's much. Obviously there's an admin, we all have admin, but what type of opportunities are in tech that you see and that you hired for and that look, coming down the pipe over the next five, 10 years?

Sonia Couto:
5:32

Yeah. Oh my gosh. So many. Where do we start? First off not all tech companies are VC backed. There is bootstrapping So a lot of companies will do everything from the ground up and build up a company from scratch Which is what we've essentially done, but there are many roles that women can have in tech So there is obviously some basic ones, which is marketing So when you're building a product you have to market that product So there, there's roles there, there's project management, usually you need a project manager managing the coders and the different business people, so there's a whole process that goes into that. Business analyst, analysts I personally love to hire women as business analysts, although they're very hard to find, but not that there's anything wrong with men, but I find that women on that very specific role, they're a lot more detail oriented. And business analysts, what they're really doing is they're documenting the entire system before a coder gets a hold of it and starts building it. So when the developers come in, they're taking this document that the BA has built and they're building against that document. That's such an important role. And I love women in that role because they just, they're so detail oriented. They go above and beyond and they make the developers jobs a lot easier. And then there's obviously QA, so testing the software once it's done. And of course, engineers, coders security Yeah there's so much that any woman can fill any one of those roles if they don't want to go into engineering and coding, which, I think women are really good at. And a lot more women are doing it. But there's all these other roles in tech that are really important. I just hired recently a woman to be my product specialist. And man she's kicking butt. And it's completely changed the team dynamic for the better. And the clients love her because like she's patient and she just does such a good job. So I also think it's really important to have diversity in the team, having men and women together makes a big impact.

Stoy:
7:40

It really does. Cause we, we each have our own like fundamental, like in our blood differences, right? Yeah. Like you said, for BAs, women are ideal because of detail oriented and stuff like that. Men just generically are not built that way. Yeah, are there always outliners? Yes, there are always outliers, but like you're not wrong in that point

Sonia Couto:
7:59

Yeah,

Stoy:
7:59

you've been through a lot of adversity growing up one coming from Portugal to Canada right and then dealing with Americans every so often as well because we are a different breed as Sadly as that is

Sonia Couto:
8:11

why

Stoy:
8:11

what? Can you say to those listening to help them in whatever situation they are in life to overcome? The adversity that they're working through because a lot of people quit and they don't push harder and you've had to do it basically since the age of before 10, but definitely since then with different cultures and learning and in tech. So can you walk us through how someone could help themselves get through that?

Sonia Couto:
8:37

Yeah. It's really depends on the individual and your upbringing. Obviously for me it was a little bit easier because I moved countries. I gotten. used to having to deal with all these different situations. So going into a new situation was easier for me to learn how to navigate. But I think it's really about being tenacious. And I love that word because it's first of all, that's a representation of me. But I love that word because it really it, it represents like you have to keep pushing if you really want to do something and you believe in it and you really want to try it. Yeah. You won't know unless you try. And I preach to myself because one of the biggest things I've struggled with in my life is fear. I've always been scared of taking risks and change and doing things. I've had to fight my way through that. But I think what I would tell people is, keep going. Try. If you fail, that's okay. Failures are freaking awesome. And that's if you, if your life is perfect and you've never failed at anything, you're probably not learning very much. Fall, fail, learn from that, pick yourself up. Just because you have an idea or you're trying to do something that may not be working doesn't mean that it is a failure. It means that it needs improvement. And I think it's really important for people to be able to say, okay. Where do I want to be? Where am I? Let me take a step back, put some thought into this, and move forward with a better execution or a better plan. And that's my advice, right? Just because it may not be working doesn't mean you should give up, but really plan out what the next phases are going to be, what you're going to do to make the change so that you can grow as a person, your business can do better, all of those things, right?

Stoy:
10:24

Absolutely, and I want everyone to know this too, and you've alluded to it, I'm going to say it a little more bluntly is None of us have our shit figured out. Like we don't, we have an idea we're working towards things, but there's not one person that I've ever met that actually has ever everything of theirs in line and in order and running exactly how they want it. And I believe there's a lot of people out there that don't want to take that risk, right? They don't want to leave their W 2 job to start a business. They don't want to leave this industry and this job because it's so good that they're afraid to move on to something next that they. They're passionate about. And I really want to break that facade of thinking like, Oh, the what ifs or all of that is no one has their shit together and you're going to be okay as long as you stay tenacious. That's the key word there is stay tenacious because if you are, that means you're still moving forward. It might be slow. You might take a step back, but you're still leaning forward. And if you're moving forward, life's going to figure it out. You're gonna figure it out. People are going to come into your life. Things will change. But if you're not doing that then you're not going to be moving forward and then you're not happy.

Sonia Couto:
11:34

Yeah. And you're always going to be stuck in the same place.

Stoy:
11:37

We never want to be stopped.

Sonia Couto:
11:40

No, you don't. But you know what? It's so easy. I think part of it is too our brains are programmed to keep us safe. And the idea of not working a job that you've been doing for the past 20 years and all of a sudden shifting and going and doing something else, that's a scary thought. And I think our brains are like, no, you're staying here because this is a safe space, right? So I think it's also about growing and learning about yourself and reading books and understanding your own behavior sometimes and just being a little bit aware of, I, I met with somebody the other day and we were talking and he was like, sometimes we hide from. Our feelings and we let our brain kick in and keep us safe. And then we develop trauma over, over time because we're not processing these feelings that we're going through. Our brain shuts it off, we put it away and then it comes up as trauma when you're older. But he's if we really learn how to sit with those feelings and let our body process them and just go through the motion, he's you'd be surprised how quickly that. Gets eliminated from your life, and I'm like damn. I wish I had known that sooner

Stoy:
12:58

It's such great advice like seriously

Sonia Couto:
13:01

Tell me right

Stoy:
13:03

and we see it all the time. We feel it all the time, but your brain says, okay Let's move forward. Let's put that away and move on like with my boys They're playing soccer and football and when you're training and you're a kid and you can't do something You know you break down and you want to you know Just freak out

Sonia Couto:
13:20

and

Stoy:
13:20

I always tell them like, Bridget, breathe just sit there, read for a couple of seconds, understand that you're okay, you will fail and move forward and it's funny as soon as they're done crying, they breathe the next rep, they catch the ball or they make the kick, whatever it is and it's see it's something like that and that is what you're talking about. It's let your body feel the fields. We're humans. We are designed to feel things, right? And that's the same way when we're talking about money and your relationships and all of those things is feel it. It's okay. It's gonna hurt sometimes, right? It's just gonna, it's gonna hurt, okay? But to feel that allows you to move forward and learn from it drastically, I believe, in my opinion.

Sonia Couto:
14:02

No, I totally agree with you.

Stoy:
14:05

So you had brought up okay. What was the point I was going to make? So we're talking about no one has their shit in order. How about making sure you feel certain way? And as well as being able to potentially take that leap of faith. What is a piece of advice for those that maybe don't have the cultural background as you, because I believe a lot of what you're talking about, and I've traveled to Africa, I've been around this country a lot and seeing different cultures and the way people are raised and just seeing things from a different lens, I believe lends to a better understanding of how people operate. How you operate and how you see the world. What can you talk to about those people that maybe don't have that experience in different cultures and what maybe they can step into to learn that?

Sonia Couto:
14:55

Yeah, Canada, I live in Canada, and it's so diverse here everyone's an immigrant pretty much but I think, honestly, I think the only way to really get that experience and know is to travel, and don't travel to a beach and a resort, travel where you're going to be with the people who live there, so you can really experience it, even if it's just for a day or two, but also work in places that have diversity. And work with people from different countries and different backgrounds. I think that really gives you a good perspective of how people think. Today we had a little lunch thing at the office and we were having Indian food and, all different cultures here. Everybody brought something from home and it was all, like, all these different flavors and things. Even food. Experiencing it. I remember as a child All we ate was Portuguese food. We never ate anything else. And then the minute I started just experiencing sushi for me to eat sushi was like, a struggle. I, I, in my mind, I had never tasted it, but I hated it. Same thing with Indian food, and it is like, one of my favorite foods now, right? It was just, I was nope to eat Portuguese food. So I think even little things like that, like experiencing a different type of cultural food. Try something spicy. Don't say you, you don't like it just because you look at it, like actually put it in your mouth and try it, it doesn't have to be something huge, you, maybe you don't have the means to travel, but do something in your own city that allows you to open up to a different culture and experience it.

Stoy:
16:28

See, I'm a huge foodie, so I'm all about that food, and Indian food is one of my favorite as well. But I truly believe a way into a culture and through it. We're humans. It is food. We love to eat and drink, of course. So use your stomach to do and like you said, start locally. If you can't travel around, then just start locally. I know locally we have a few events that are like like we have an Asian market deal that they do for a couple of weeks. So just go to those and experience it, but go with an open mind of learning how someone else is raised, what their food's about, their cultural differences, because it really does make a difference when you're in the workforce or you're networking or whatever's because you can relate on a different level. And that's truly what, those connections are for.

Sonia Couto:
17:12

For sure. I agree with you a hundred percent.

Stoy:
17:15

So in tech, I know we're going back to tech, but I have this question. Cause I always, I try to ask all my tech people this because at the end of the day, most tech people end up selling out and being done and maybe move on to the next thing and moving on the next thing. And I just get, it seems like that just keeps rolling around. What's your future in tech look like? Are you one of those ones that's building this to sell right now? Are you. What are you looking for? And what is your future in tech?

Sonia Couto:
17:43

Yeah first we're not looking to build to exit. That's not the plan. The plan is to grow it and make it successful. If there's ever an exit down the road. Yeah. If it's the right time, if it's the right move for me, I've I've come to the realization in the last two years that. What I'm really good at is, I think it has something to do with my middle child syndromes and being handed down things and I started mastering this in my own personal branding, it's what I'm really good at is taking things, leftovers from other people and working on them and making them successful. The two companies that I'm the founder of now, that's exactly what happened. The founding team, which was, I was a part of. Left at some point and left me behind with these two at the time very crappy products And I you know made the decision to shelf them at the time But it was never I knew it was never going to be permanent But I needed to shelf it so I could really put some thought into what am I going to do with this? It's there. It's built. It's being handed to me now Leftovers from other people what am I going to do with it? And I think I really did a good job on reusing the technology and then rebuilding it, putting together a really good business plan around it, and then relaunching these products with a real vision behind it. Yes, there were fails before, and, but, and you can, but you can pivot and you can make, you can still make things work. So I think that's what I'm really good at, and I want to focus more on that. I want to focus more on helping people who are. with their existing products and helping them figure out how to navigate that stuck phase before they fully give up because they could still, they could be onto something like there. There's also the reality of, no, this is crappy. Stop wasting money on it. Give it up. But that's also a realization sometimes that people need to have. But I think like my sweet spot now where I am in my career is really working with people who have something who are stuck, don't know where to go and I can help them get through that phase because with building our products, it's not just about the technology and that's what a lot of technology companies get stuck on. They're like, I'm a tech company. Yeah, you're a tech company, you're building tech, but You want to sell your tech, so you have to be a business person, you have to know how to do marketing, you have to know how to do a little bit of accounting, you have to know how to put together a sales team, you have to know how to sell your product. And I'm always shocked at how many of these startups I work with or I talk to that are like, we don't have a business plan, we don't have a marketing plan. We don't have a sales plan. Okay. But you want to grow in the next six months. Don't you think you need, okay. And it's not just, okay, here's the thing now I'm getting excited because I do love it. It's okay, you want to grow and you have all these plans and you want to do all these things. Do you know what happens when you grow like a SAS product? Your support and training to clients is going to triple, double, triple. Okay. Are you prepared for that? I've experienced that in the last year and I'm like, and I'm pretty prepared and still I'm like, holy crap, like I'm prepared, but I'm not that prepared. And all of a sudden you have people calling you and you're like, it's right there and they're like, I don't see it. And you're like, I'm like, You're looking at it. It's like right there. Click that button and it, your job evolves over time. Even as a founder first you have to know your whole business. You have to know the marketing. You have to know the product development. You have to know the sales. You have to be involved in everything and you also have to start structuring yourself for How am I going to lead? I can't be doing everything. So who am I going to put in charge of each department? How am I going to get them to report to me? How do I stay involved with my baby and not get stuck doing, high level stuff, which is needed of a leader. But it's your baby. You still want to do the day to day. That's a fine line. And a lot of founders want to stay stuck in that day to day. I don't blame them because I'm the same way. I want to know what's going on. I want to know what they're building. I want to know what's next. I want to be part of the road map, but my job now is not that. It's all these other things, right? So I think like, all of that has to come into play and people really need to understand it's not just building tech and another part I'm going to shut up, but I'm going to get to the next, the last part, which is know your industry. Yeah, you're a tech company, but you're not selling to tech, you're selling to. Food service. You're selling to mining companies. You're selling to manufacturers. Do you know those industries? Do you know how they speak? Do you know where they hang out? Do you know what they like to drink and eat? Do you know how to speak to them? If you talk to them like you're a techie, they ain't gonna buy from you. Which is something that you really I spent so much time going to tech events. Until I realized, oh, crap I need to be going to food service industry events I'm not, this is not bringing me any value in going to tech events, right? There is some value, but if, when you grow to a certain point That's you want to be talking to your customers. So learn how to speak to them.

Stoy:
23:04

That's such a huge point. The whole thing you just said, by the way, applies to every business owner, not just tech. So anyone listening, you think about it for yourself because what she just said verbatim, except for some of the terms is exactly in your same business, right? We see it all the time. And I see a lot of the startups, it doesn't matter what type of industry you're in is it's the same way, right? They have no plan. There is no real strategy. I just was really good at X, Y, Z service or building this widget. And it starts to grow and it gets out of hand and they usually fail. That's what happens because of no plan. If one, you need to have a plan, right? And I think before you do all of, or included with all of that, you also need to think about your exit plan. Not necessarily that you have to exit, but you need to know what type of business you're building on the front side, because it is different. So if I'm building to exit because of a sell down the road to a third party, then I'm going to build it a little differently where I need to be out of the business of the day to day as much as possible. Because that all would be on top of me, which reduces our value flip side. If you're building it to hire someone internally or family or legacy, then it's okay for you to be really good at your lane and hire, a CEO or whatever the term is for you and your business to run the higher value. But if you know that on the front end, it makes life a lot easier when you're growing than it does to later down the road, go, Oh crap, I'm really good at making a widget, but now I have to hire 50 people. And I don't know anything, right? Benefits, HR your compliance your security, both cyber and not like all these things come throwing out you. And if you've never known anything in business, that is beyond overwhelming.

Sonia Couto:
24:51

Oh, yeah. That's why a lot of entrepreneurs have burnout, right? They're just so overwhelmed. They get overwhelmed and then they start procrastinating and then it starts affecting their mental health and there's so much that goes into being an entrepreneur. And I think it's, I think it's really good that you're having this conversation and what you said about if you're going to build a business to exit, absolutely. No investor wants to buy a company that's a hundred percent dependent on the founder. So that's such a good point. And all things that people need to think about when they're building out their companies.

Stoy:
25:24

Yeah, absolutely. All right. As we get to the end, always ask us one question, which you've already answered before. So we'll see if the answer is different, but it is, what is one thing you want to leave all of our listeners with that allows them to take that next step forward with whatever and where they're at in their journey and their next endeavor, whatever it is, what is one thing you want to leave with them to take that next step?

Sonia Couto:
25:46

Be open minded and willing to learn. I think that's, I could not say it any more bluntly than that. Like when you're open to learning possibilities are endless, but if you think you're an, if you're a know it all and no one can teach you something new, you're going to be stuck.

Stoy:
26:04

It's vitally important. And that's why you're probably listening to this podcast and if you're not, and you see this clip, cause I probably clipped this one out is be open to learning different ways of learning, read books, podcasts, learn from others, continually learn, and that's where your opportunities come from. Sonia, I appreciate it. I'm glad this worked out again. If it echoes again, I might just lose it, but I do appreciate you and everything that you do.

Sonia Couto:
26:28

Thank you. I appreciate you having me.

Black Mammoth:
26:30

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