Happy holidays, everyone. Shana's back. Of course. Lucky to have you on. And today we wanted everyone to, to. Take a seat back and kind of figure out what's going on, right? There's a lot going on within our markets, our economy, international markets, you name it. There's a lot going on that are, that's different. There isn't really a clean route one way or another of what's happening, and so there's always different ways to attack the situation. Traditionally, quote unquote right people, traditionally, there is a ways to attack it, but I think there's alternative routes and other thoughts that we need to bring to the attention. So Shannon's gonna come on, tell us a little story, tell us a different route than what maybe you were thinking, and you'll be able to stay tuned and listen to that. So, Shana, without further ado, what do you got that isn't traditional?

Shana Sissel:
0:55

Well, first your audience must be so sick of seeing me. I feel like I'm on all the time. Uh, but, uh, happy to kind of give you a holidays. Story that I think can help the audience. Um, you know, at Bon Ran, we work with a lot of advisors of all different ages and all different structures. So we work with, you know, large aggregators where I'm working with a central research team who is kind of pushing ideas out to the broader advisors underneath them. I work with, you know, small groups that are three or four guys that. You know, broke away from a big BD and are, are kind of doing their own thing and work with folks like yourself. You know, you kind of started your own firm. It's. It's really you driving the decisions and, and bringing the clients in. And so for me, we work with all different kind of advisors in that respect. But what they all have in common is they're all thinking of ways that they can differentiate themselves with alts. And over this past year, you know, we have a, a, an advisor that works with us through our pilot advisor program. He's a younger advisor. He broke away from a larger independent firm, not an aggregator, but like a larger firm that was, you know, four or five guys. And, um, he was. Hired as kind of a young guy to bring in new business. Um, he's not even 30 yet, and he wanted to go and, and start his own shop. He's, he's a fairly well-known person. You see him on TV all the time, and he got married and he is like, I wanna go and do this on my own. But when you do that, you go and you basically leave with nothing.'cause you can't take the assets you have, obviously those clients belong to the firm you came from. So you're starting with a complete clean slate and that's really scary. Because, um, for your business to work, you gotta be able to generate revenue. And as an advisor, your revenue comes from being able to bring in client client assets and, and provide advice on those assets and services on those assets. And so this particular advisor, he's in Kentucky and he had a big whale. Um, obviously being on tv, he gets a lot of inbound. Requests. I, I run into this myself quite a bit. Um, and people are really interested in working with him. And so he had a potential prospect,$25 million bring in the door. That's a big deal when you just start and you got nothing,$25 million to kind of start off. Um, so he had two or three of these higher, uh, a UM client opportunities and he was trying to find a way, like, how do I, a, stand out from the crowd? Um, and b, I have a younger advisor. And so I need to be able to reflect authority and how do I do that? So he chose to use alternatives as his way to kind of get his foot in the door. I like to say this all the time, but the average advisor, you're all working from the same playbook. You know, whether you're at a broker dealer and you're at a big wirehouse, or you're fully independent, or you're an aggregator, you're all working somewhat within the same playbook. You know, we might call it something different, but it is still a similar playbook. You're working on a wrap program basis. You're working with a tamp, you're working with some sort of OCIO model marketplace. Either way, you're all working from that framework, and the fact of the matter is it's not a lot of ways. To, you know, um, skin that, that apple, um, is that even a saying cat? I don't know. That cat. A cat. There you go. Skin the cat. It's not, so you're all kind of coming with the same thing from a different direction. So maybe you're choosing a fidelity model, maybe you're choosing. Some sort of OCIM model that has some sort of algorithm attached to it that's supposed to be, you know, better, but it's still using fidelity, vanguard, whatever, to keep expense ratios down. Um, if you're within a wirehouse, you have your WRAP programs, you know what the fees are, but it's generally trying to work within the same framework. You're all working the same, but where can you make a difference? Where are you bringing something to the table that nobody else is? So this advisor chose to do it with alt, so you know. Small business owner, uh, recently had an exit. And so he was thinking about what can I bring to the table for this, uh, individual to, to gain the assets? And he thought, you know, private credit, middle market, direct lending. Let's talk about ways in which we can show us small business owner how to help other small business owners. So he, he, he really focused on bringing alternative solutions to this client as a way of thinking about beyond, you know, just managing the assets in a traditional way. How can I stand out from everybody else? How can I show that I was listening and thinking about the things that they said was important to him, and what kind of questions do I ask? So we really helped him through that, you know, asking differentiated questions and finding a, a new and different way to, to go in front of this client. Provide them something that looked different than everything else, but also looked thoughtful like he understood the client. So that's ultimately what he did, and ultimately got the assets. And when you're an advisor and you're thinking about this, I talk about it all the time. You wanna think about ways in which you can. Reflect your client. A I'm not like everybody else. I'm not cookie cutter because you, you wanna stand out from the crowd If you're younger, and I, I can say this with a lot of confidence, you know, find the thing that the older guys don't have the edge on. So, when I got into the business, it was 5, 2, 9 plans. Like that was a brand new legislation at the time. So the, the guys who've been in the business for 30 years couldn't know more about 5, 2, 9 plans than me because 5, 2, 9 plans were brand new. So I made that my opening. And in today's world, I think alternatives is a real way to do that. I find that most of the older, more tenured advisors, they, they got there by building their business in a certain way and they're not inclined to, to move away from that because they're not thinking about how do I make my business bigger? Or they're, they're really thinking about how do I, you know, sell this to somebody else. To take over these assets, to take over these clients and making sure that they're not losing business along the way. But if you're younger, you need to be different. And so in this particular case, I really think alternatives is a place that, you know, advisors who are looking to stand out from a crowd looking to build a business, whether you be younger or otherwise, this is the way that you can really stand out. And that's kind of what we helped him with. So, you know, in my view, these are important stories because I think advisors. Do get really comfortable at a time and don't think about, you know, what's the next step to growing and, and accelerating the growth of my business.

Stoy Hall, CFP®:
7:23

Now, I know we we're leaning heavily on the in investment side of things, but I, I wanna kind of combine the conversation a little bit. Um, one with one question first, does this advisor, do they do financial planning too, or are they strictly They do. Okay, perfect. Because I think what we're seeing in our markets industry, I should say, is the fact that the old dogs, the old white dudes are not doing planning. And I think part of that is one, they don't know how to or don't want to'cause it's not their model. Mm-hmm. But two, when we take out planning and we insert alternatives, I think those go hand in hand. For your example with your story, um, with what that young advisor is doing is he's bringing alternatives. But in order to do alternatives correctly, you have to know who your client is, what they like, what they want to do, what they want to achieve, which is in turn really good financial planning, right? Mm-hmm. And so I think that's where we're starting to see things, um, kind of move towards and shift towards which it should, which only means alternatives down the road are probably gonna be more. Prevalent and they should, uh, than this traditional model. Where do you see from, from your seat, um, with young advisors, old advisors, et cetera? Are you seeing that same shift of like the ones that do more planning or doing more alternatives and it just keeps kind of growing and moving that way?

Shana Sissel:
8:38

So back in July, I participated in something called an advice engagement. Um, it was sponsored by Asset Map. Which is a great tool for advisors out there that maps out client assets and can be really helpful as you're doing financial plans, um, to kind of get a full visual, uh, understanding of your client's wealth and the assets that they have across the board. So asset maps sponsored this event. And, um, what they were looking to do is understand advice 2030. So in five years, what does that look like? What does our industry look like? And the white paper that came from that event was just published by wealth management.com, so you can go and find it if you go to wealth management.com. Um, I was part of this, this. Think, think tank that they called it. And one of the things that came out of this and was very loud and clear to me was that the future of advice is not an a UM based model, right? It is a fee for service, fee for coaching retainer kind of model. Um, and if you want to be able to charge a. You know, premium fee, a premium coaching fee, premium fee for service, premium retainer for your services. You have to be able to offer your clients something they can't do on their own. And with, you know, the custodians and brokerage firms out there, whether it be Robin Hood. Whether it be Fidelity, whether it be Schwab, you name it, being able to broadly offer, you know, services internally where the client can get a lot of information and data to make decisions. They do their own risk tolerance, um, questionnaires in the beginning. They do all of that when they sign on with Fidelity. And Fidelity has a managed portfolio solution. You can choose my opinion of it. I'll keep to myself. But, um, you know, the thing is if you really want. To be able to bring these clients to you in a world where now everybody thinks they can do it their selves. And many people have. I mean, the growth of Robin Hood's a great example of this. Um, you have to be willing to meet these folks where they are. And so they're on social media, they are doing crypto and alternatives, and they're interested in these products. And in order to encourage these folks to come work with you, you need to be able to be there. You need to have a good social media presence. You have to be offering an open-minded to crypto and alternatives. And I think that is a place where a lot of advisors struggle. And I don't know that it's that they're closed-minded, uh, as much as they're concerned about regulatory con uh, um, uh, pressures and what that, what kind of risk they're putting themselves in their firm at. Um, I think. Advisors, my advice to you would be find a way to get over that because it's gonna hold you back. Um, it, it shouldn't be the thing that keeps you from moving forward. Fear is just lack of information. I think we talked about this on my last episode. Uh, fear is simply lack of information. So get the information, talk to your chief compliance officer, whether they'd be outsourced or otherwise on how you can have these conversations, because that's where people are interested. So I think as far as I'm concerned, as an advisor, being able to start that process and think about ways that you can worry more about offering a service or coaching that is above and beyond what they could get from any of the. You know, broad retail brokers is where it starts. And financial planning, estate planning, anything like that are gonna be the ways to do it. Um, and it doesn't even have to start with you saying like, do you have a financial plan? It's simply asking the questions like, what are you saving for? And then the roadmap to that is an essence of financial plan's. The start asking the right questions. What's important to you? What are you saving for? Why is that important to you? How long is that timeline? You know, where do you wanna be in 10 years? If you ask these broader open-ended questions and you just sit back and let people talk, the gems of information that you get from that. Can really help drive a more personalized approach.

Stoy Hall, CFP®:
12:32

Couldn't agree more, could not agree more and advisors listening, but even more so clients that are listening. If you've gotten this far, of course,'cause we've talked a lot for advisors. Challenge your current advisor if you don't have one, the next time you speak to one, challenge them about crypto, about alternatives, about how that might potentially fit who you are and what you've got for your plan. Because ultimately. You need to figure out who you wanna work with and if you vibe with them and if they know what that's going on and advisors listening, we are challenging everyone to challenge you. And if you're not ready for that challenge, then you're gonna get left behind and it's gonna happen quickly if you already aren't getting left behind. So make sure you are going to run Ryan or. Go into social media or figuring it out because you're gonna get left behind soon.

Shana Sissel:
13:19

And I, I will also challenge advisors this way and, and particularly folks out there looking for an advisor, whether you care about crypto or not, you wanna know where your advisor stands on these things. And the answer should never be, oh, that's not, that's, that's a scam. If your advisor answers questions like that and it's not a thoughtful response, then you need to move on, um, because there should be a thoughtful response. Even if they ultimately come to the conclusion of, this isn't something I want my clients in, they need to be able to articulate to you why that is. And the answer, it's a scam, is not an answer that's a cop out. It means that they didn't actually think about it and come up with the reason why they feel it's inappropriate for their clients. If they walk you through why it is, then that's a perfectly acceptable. But whether you have an interest in it or not, your advisors should have an answer for where they stand on some of these things. And the more controversial the question, the better. I think that really challenges you to to know if your advisor is, are educated and thinking about the future and where they stand on these issues'cause they are important. And an advisor who has no answer for you. That's an answer in and of itself. So from a client perspective, you need to be willing to ask good questions. And you need to be thinking about the thoughtful ways you want advisors to interact with you. If you tell them that you wanna save for retirement, and that's the end of the conversation is, okay, we'll save for retirement and you wanna have this much as your income or this much yield when you get there and they're not asking you like, what do you wanna do in your retirement? What's important to you at like, they should be asking more questions. Because they should get to know you. And as somebody who focused on alternatives, I think that advisors should ask these questions because then they can bring to you ideas that are gonna be more aligned with things that are personally important to you. But if they never ask the question, then they never really bothered to get to know you beyond what it would be in terms of meeting a minimum. Bogey on their part to get your assets. So I am going to be retiring in 30 years and in my retirement, I want to be able to generate so much income as to match my current salary is the baseline answer to a, what's your retirement goal? But the advisor should probe you more as to what you wanna do in retirement because. Those things are gonna matter. You may think this is how much you need in retirement, but once you start articulating what your actual goals in retirement are, it may or may not be sufficient. It may be thinking you need more money than you do, or it may not be enough, but the questions are important. So as a client, I, I say, challenge your advisors to ask these difficult questions. Because you want to work with an advisor that's thoughtful and educated and articulate and has thought about the way these things impact their practices. And they should be asking you questions beyond basic questions of planning. And that's really where I guide advisors, whether it be an alternatives or otherwise, you should be thinking thoughtfully, you should be using alternatives as a way to personalize the experience. And you should be using tools like Asset Map and others. To give a better, broader view to the client about what they own and you know, where their risks are in a really holistic way. Because as we move to this more service-based, coaching based retainer model, those are the things that actually justify the cost.

Stoy Hall, CFP®:
16:36

Absolutely. So clients, potential clients, prospect clients, whatever you wanna call them, sitting at home advisors, sitting at home, take this time to reflect, figure out where you want to be, or what do you want to ask going forward? Shane and I are challenging both. Sets of you, uh, to, to being better, but also getting better within your own plan. Shannon, I hope you have a very happy holidays. Hope you and your son can have a white Christmas. I'm so glad that it snowed finally here. So hopefully we get one for the first time in five years, but we look forward to 2026 when we can dive deeper into some more alternatives.

Shana Sissel:
17:07

Absolutely. Thanks for having me, joy.