All the way from Georgia and she said it's just now cooling off a little bit is Catherine Smith. I'm excited about today. This one's a little different than we've had before. Plus, I'm a Falcons fan. I'm a Braves fan. So it's nice to have someone there as well. Without further ado, Catherine, why don't you tell us about yourself, your business, and then like always, we're going to dive into it and bring some real no bullshit. Conversations.

Kathryn Smith:
0:35

Sure. Thank, first of all, thank you so much for having me. My name is Catherine Smith. I am the founder of Walton Birch, which is a web development company based here in Marietta, Georgia. I'm also the co founder of the black lady based business school based in Atlanta, Georgia. I've been a full time entrepreneur for about five years. Prior to that, 500 companies in Atlanta. So have a mix of corporate experience and entrepreneur experience.

Stoy Hall, Host:
1:00

There you go. What made you want to get into being an entrepreneur? Because one, yeah, you're black, you're female entrepreneurial life sucks as is sometimes. So what made you want to dive into that and take on all those challenges? Actually, it wasn't really

Kathryn Smith:
1:15

a choice. I became an entrepreneur during what I thought would be a temporary break from corporate America to deal with some health issues. And I didn't know at the time, obviously that a pandemic was coming. So I started. My business. Just as a planning to be a consultant about eight months before the pandemic started. And the pandemic is what kind of drove me into full time entrepreneurship. And so I think about a year into business, I had to make the decision of, do I want to go back into corporate America? Am I healthy enough? Is it a good time? Or do I really just need to focus on, put that time and energy into a business and focus on growing the business. And at that point in 2020, I was like, all right I have to get his 10 toes down, got to focus on the business and focus on growing the business. It wasn't a decision I made initially, but the decision to invest full time, go full speed was about a year in the business for me. So

Stoy Hall, Host:
2:08

what let's back up a little bit, we're as entrepreneurs, we're crazy. We like to jump into things. What allowed you to take that first step into what. I'm doing this 100 percent like this is what i'm doing

Kathryn Smith:
2:23

Yeah, I think absolutely. I came from a place of privilege into entrepreneurship. So even though entrepreneurship wasn't necessarily my choice or even my preference at the time having come out of corporate America out of a six figure job with a little bit of savings and Like some liquid literal liquid assets was incredibly helpful. Also, I had great credit, didn't have any problems getting business credit and I had a spouse who worked full time. So I was incredibly fortunate when I started in business. So I have a lot of support, like a lot of. I guess tactical or actual support meeting the financial burdens of the household. So it wasn't like a blind leap for me. I had some times to falter and learn and still be supported by someone, in my day to day expenses and keeping my household afloat, while I was learning what I was doing as a business owner, if I'm being completely honest.

Stoy Hall, Host:
3:14

Hey, some of us are lucky and some of us are blessed. And I love that you came from that and you recognize that, right? Yeah, not all entrepreneurs start that way. And so I'm glad you bring that out. All right. Let's talk. Let's talk about your business to the school as well. So let's talk about your business. Why that as a business, like why web development, why go that route?

Kathryn Smith:
3:36

Actually, I didn't start, it didn't start out as a web development business. When I started my company, Walton Verge, I planned for it to be a marketing research company. My MBA is in business analytics. I had been doing marketing research and business analytics in corporate America, fully wanted to continue with that. I actually named Walton Birch the way that I did so that people were, would think of like a McKinsey or Deloitte or Forrester when they heard the name. And the universe just had other because the pandemic started eight months into business for me, I couldn't get in front of anyone. I couldn't get in front of prospects. I couldn't get in front of referrals, people who could give me referrals. I couldn't get in front of, corporations or people that make decisions about purchasing those types of services. And so in early 2020, I fell back into web development, which is a skill I had picked up way, Way early in my career. And because a lot of brick and mortar businesses were transitioning to an online model in early 2020 and because a lot of people have been laid off or furloughed in early 2020 web development actually worked. And in marketing, there's so many people in marketing and there are. A lot of skills and services under the umbrella of marketing. I found it was really important to differentiate myself really early on. So I would say, Oh, I'm a marketing consultant. And people would say, Oh, do you do paid ads? And I'd say, no, that's not quite right. Yeah. So it was really important to be really specific about the types of services that I provided within marketing. And I. Obviously wasn't very great. I wasn't good at all of them. So I was good at web development. I'm good at marketing strategy. I'm great at analytics. Those were the areas where I concentrated and focused. And I started out as a solopreneur, actually telling people, that I'm an eCommerce consultant that I build eCommerce websites and eCommerce stores. And then it just grew from there. So Walton Burch's It's not just me anymore, it's me and a team of people and we build we do custom development for small business websites, e commerce stores, marketing campaigns.

Stoy Hall, Host:
5:41

So are you seeing in nowadays age, entrepreneurs out there, how important still is your website and what are some changes you're seeing with the development? Because like you could go somewhere and make a cheap website, have a landing page be done. What is that fundamentally a good idea?

Kathryn Smith:
6:01

That is a good question. And I think about that a lot. So especially when people are like do you make money as a, a web development consultant? And it's just that's a great question. Because there are so many platforms out there where. A individual who doesn't have any experience building websites can build a website in a day. There are also so many freelancers and other people and consultants in marketing that could, that provide that service or provide a custom development for you. So it's still pretty crowded. I think the thing that differentiates Walt and Birch from some of those other solutions out there is that we provide holistic solutions. So it's not just Hey, you need a website. We've got a website. We'll build you, we'll build you a website. We build websites that help people accomplish what they want to accomplish. So if you're trying to launch a business, if you're trying to migrate from one platform to another, like how does that business fit into your goals as an entrepreneur and how can we create a solution that works for you? So instead of just saying okay, we'll set up the Shopify store good luck, Godspeed. We're saying, okay, I know you're on Shopify and I know you're, selling a product, but Shopify might not be the best platform for you because it does require a little bit of work. I think this might be a better platform or here's some things that we can integrate into your website to help it basically be another employee for your organization. So differentiating in the web development space, differentiating your spell yourself is difficult, but it's not impossible. And I think providing value is. The thing that is the difference. And to answer the question about do businesses still need websites with social media, with, all of the ways that we can connect with people these days, there are businesses that will be successful without full websites. I just don't, I want to help the people who would not be able to be successful without websites, if that makes sense, like there are so many hurdles to success. And entrepreneurship. So I'm not like team. Oh, you have to have a website. You're going to fail. But if the, if having a website, if is the one thing standing between you and succeeding, I'm like, all right, bet let's get you a website.

Stoy Hall, Host:
8:06

Yeah, I agree. And there is plenty of businesses out there that you just see on Facebook, Shopify, they have just those stores and work very well. My thing to that is the website itself as an asset and can be part of your asset. Me talking about money all the time, building people's wealth as a business owner, like you want as many assets in your business. So when you go to sell it, it's worth more or worth something. Absolutely. We don't want to work 30, 40 years of our life and then be like that was a good ride and I'm going to sell it for a hundred dollars. That's not, it's not worth it. So your website is ability to have that asset. And I love your name, the name of my firm is Black Mammoth. I love the fact that those are unique and stand alone. regardless of the industry, the entity or whatever. And that also adds more assets, right? That adds more value. And I really want business owners to understand calling your firm, whatever your name or your name, whatever will reduce the value of that because it's all tied to you as a person. And if it is not, it is way easier to be sold because that brand can then stand alone and keep going. You're always literally your own brand. Don't get me wrong, but your business brand can't stand alone to bring.

Kathryn Smith:
9:21

Yeah, no, there are too many people with my name for that

Stoy Hall, Host:
9:23

to work

Kathryn Smith:
9:23

for me. I met another person with my exact name through a Google alert. So I set up a Google alert for my name. So like Catherine Smith plus marketing plus Atlanta and found someone else. Yeah, there's another Catherine Smith who's a marketing director at gen cap, which is a much larger company. So I was like, Oh, okay. It's really good that I didn't name this Catherine

Stoy Hall, Host:
9:49

Smith.

Kathryn Smith:
9:55

Yeah. Wasn't going to work.

Stoy Hall, Host:
9:59

Their website and either building it out or revamping it. What are the initial steps that they need to think through? For that process to be something that doesn't take months, right? Because it does take a while but What is like the first things they need to think about either when they're building one out or they're going to change something on their website?

Kathryn Smith:
10:19

That's a good question. Sometimes it does take months. And I think whether or not it takes months and really just the way to think about this is what do you want to get out of it? So if you're currently selling on like an, a, it's you or some sort of marketplace platform, or you don't have a website at all, And you want a website that has custom profiles and automates with multiple public APIs to provide real time information. And I don't know, like stock trades or something crazy like that. Like that's going to take a couple of months. But either way, I think understanding what you want the website to accomplish is important. And then laying the groundwork to get there. So for the average entrepreneur or small business, they're not building something that big from the beginning. And as someone who does build websites for entrepreneurs and small businesses, a lot of times I will encourage people to do like a minimum viable product. Basically I understand that your end goal is to have people to be able to build sandcastles remotely through a website platform. However, given that we just started and you have 10 dollars, we may want to rethink that. Understand where you want to go. And I think understand what steps or what iterations of a website will get you closer to that. And what can we realistically do with the time and budget that we have now? So yeah I like the minimum viable approach of minimum viable product approach, where it serves where we are and what we're trying to do right now. Cause the website should absolutely not bankrupt a company, but it also can't take nine years to build.

Stoy Hall, Host:
11:49

That concept of the minimal viable. Product, option, service, whatever you want to call that afterwards, is fundamentally what all business owners need to actually do. We want to be perfect. We want our service to be perfect, our product, everything to look and be perfect. That's not realistic. As adults, we know life is not realistic like that. Shit happens all the time. And so we have to be able to adapt adapt to that. And I think that, that minimalistic idea, specifically in the website side and it flows to everything else is so important. We did the same thing with my website. Like we started minimally and then we did a big change and now we're just doing adaptations as we go. But I know it's not perfect. It eats me alive every day when I go on it. But I love my website. Same,

Kathryn Smith:
12:35

honestly. Same.

Stoy Hall, Host:
12:37

If that ever went away, I think that might be an issue, right? If you're ever like, Oh, that's perfect. I'm right. I think there's issues there. As you bring in the budget idea in the conversation around budget. As business owners, we're always saying, okay, it's going to cost me X, but my return is also going to be X. Now, I know that a website necessarily isn't always going to have an ROI that you can track very easily. I also know it's not going to turn around and make you million dollar O. But it needs to be there and it's a viable long term option when you talk through people about their budget one, roughly, what are costs? What can they expect? But also talk to them exactly about this journey of having a website and that return over time as opposed to Instagram.

Kathryn Smith:
13:22

Yeah. So there are a couple of ways to think about. Both the budget and the return for a website, websites fall squarely into marketing. They are, they can be functional. They are functional, but because a lot of what goes on to a website is how do we, present our brand outwards. It's considered largely marketing. That said, see, I want to address your a couple of your points. Obviously. Idea that a website will generate millions of dollars is overnight is not that's not a great expectation, unless you just literally have the best thing since sliced bread. That's not a great expectation that you're just going to build like field of dreams. We're going to build it. They're going to come. They're going to spend a million dollars. It's going to be great. And also, I think here, I think it's important to say that not all websites generate revenue at all. Sometimes the ROI from a website is either cost savings or like contribution to the business. In many cases, especially for kind of solopreneurs, service based businesses, a website can almost serve as an employee. A website can help. Triage or bring in clients can onboard them, can give them the information that they need so that you don't have to have a salesperson that does that. Delivering warm leads to your business or weeding out people who may not be right for your business or automating, onboarding, automating some of the things that you would have to pay a person to do. And in small businesses, payroll is really important. Just like the cost of labor is very high. So in many cases, the ROI for a website will be cost savings over having to hire a person to do that thing. And in some cases, websites are not supposed to generate any kind of money at all. So if you understand a website as a strategic tool for marketing, but also potentially a tool within your business, I think understanding how much to invest in it makes more sense. And also, from my perspective, when I'm handing out proposals and I'm saying, Oh yeah, it's going to cost a million dollars, which I haven't done a million dollar website yet. I will say this is what goes into that. So yes. Some of that is labors. Yes. Some of that is customization, but this is what you can expect to get back out of that. And so the challenge for me as a consultant is to create an offering that matches up with the expectation of the client. So part of it is the client understanding what they want to get out of a website. Part of it is the consultant being able to craft a offer that matches up with that for a price tag that matches up with that. But I can say personally, sometimes that with websites, there is a mismatch. So people will say, all right, I want to build a website to sell my product. I'm selling my product for 5, 000 each. I don't want to spend any more than 350 on a website. I'm like, Hey, I hate to break it to you. We may have a mismatch. Between like your expectations and the reality for this project, but that's not very, it doesn't happen very often. I, I do still think that there are people out there that think that websites cost like 250 or 350. But in many cases, if you're building something, if you're investing in something. thing to help grow your business. It's worth it. And I, I think, like I said, part of that is the expectation on the part of the entrepreneur, the business owner. Part of that is on me as a consultant or me as a business owner, a founder to say, Hey, this is the value that we're providing. This is what you can expect to get back out of your website once we've built it.

Stoy Hall, Host:
16:48

Yeah. And maybe two 50, three 50 to host when you go through and you're talking about proposals and doing all of that. Do you have a rule of thumb that you either you internally have done as a business owner, or you talk to others as a consultant to say, Hey, your service is this, your product's worth this business is worth this. You should spend 10 percent 20 percent on a website or, have you ever thought or have done that for people to get them an idea of this is what you should be doing.

Kathryn Smith:
17:23

That's a good question. That is a good question. So I don't have a specific framework in terms of what percentage of maybe operating costs or budget should be allocated towards a website. So just understanding that. As a business owner, some of my, I have overhead and expenses and also labor is an expense. And in the case of custom web development, you get what you pay for. So if I, for instance, we're building a website on one of those kind of drag and drop sites, like a Wix or something, just a regular Wix site, Wix has like a higher end site, but just like the regular version of Wix. And it was like a one page site that was set up. Static that didn't have any kind of fanciness on it. If I told you one of those pages that looked like it came out in 1993 you'd have a hard time believing me. You'd just be like, Oh no, man, I don't think that's right. I don't think that's right. But also, if I explain to someone, if I say, Hey we're going to build a headless implementation of Shopify. So that Shopify drives the backend of your site, but we have custom development upfront that will allow you to stand up your own CMS separately from a Shopify store also lost them. I've lost them. I

Stoy Hall, Host:
18:39

was tracking for about

Kathryn Smith:
18:43

Yeah, basically. Yeah, so I will have lost you at that point. But you wouldn't automatically be like, Oh, yeah, that's total. That's totes worth 5, 000. It's totes worth 5, 000. So I think part of it is being able to communicate the value of that to say, okay, this requires custom development. This requires access to 4. 0. For instance, APIs like Shopify provides limited access to APIs. So I also need a developer who has expertise in collecting or connecting APIs, standing up CMSs, doing that custom front end development. And I do occasionally get pushback from clients. And when I get pushback from them, I'm like, Oh, okay, no, I totally understand where we're definitely working with you on your budget. The way that we can make this cheaper is to use a junior developer, but it's going to take twice as long. There's always trade offs. And then I think just being really transparent about that and helping people to understand the expertise that goes into those products. And it's just, we're not just charging just because we can charge we're charging because we're trying to get this done the best way possible with the best expertise in the least amount of time, but also within a reasonable budget for both of us. I'm very transparent about that.

Stoy Hall, Host:
19:52

We always want to be like, you don't want a project to drag on and what not. We really don't. Time and money. Time and money. If I can turn this around, be efficient, nail it, and we're all happy, that means I can do it again

Kathryn Smith:
20:03

with someone else

Stoy Hall, Host:
20:04

and get them in. So people need to realize it's not on purpose. Things don't go slow on purpose. We

Kathryn Smith:
20:10

can do it slower. We can do it more slowly. There are some clients that would prefer to work more slowly from a budget perspective, because either their cashflow comes in slowly, or it's funded and the funding comes in and goes out slowly and we can accommodate that as well. But most people, especially for business websites, they're wanting to get up and running pretty quickly. All right, school.

Stoy Hall, Host:
20:33

What the hell? You started, what'd you do?

Kathryn Smith:
20:38

So what happened was Yeah. So wait, were you asking about the black lady business school or,

Stoy Hall, Host:
20:43

yeah,

Kathryn Smith:
20:45

so what happened? This is absolutely what had happened was moment. So during the pandemic I was on a networking platform and I met another marketing person here in Atlanta and we were just commiserating about how things are really hard during the pandemic. This was in 2021. So we weren't completely out of it out of the woods from a, Struggle perspective with the pandemic. And so we were commiserating about like how our clients were struggling and how marketing wasn't solving all of their problems. My co founder, this is before she was my co founder, but she does social media marketing. I was doing websites and I'm like, okay, This is helpful. However, my client doesn't have any boxes to ship her product. She can't get raw materials to make her product. So we have bigger problems than just marketing and marketing is not going to solve all of these products. I wish there was a way this is what happened. I wish there was a way to leverage economies of scale to help the community and black lady business school was born. So during the pandemic, it was more about leveraging economies of scale to get more buying power. So how do we buy more cocoa butter so that buy bulk. So instead of buying one box of cocoa butter, we can buy 50 boxes of cocoa butter so that the order can be prioritized over other retailers when we're having supply chain issues, or how can we make it more affordable right now? Cause like pricing on so much of that stuff went out. So how can we leverage economies of scale to make, to keep small businesses in business. And then it just became more of a marketing doesn't solve all of the problems that small business owners and women and minority owned businesses have, like, how do we as a community come together and help solve some of those challenges, help lower some of the hurdles to success, help improve some of the outcomes for these small businesses. And so that's where black lady business school came from. It's not technically a school, but we named it school because we wanted to replicate in the business school experience and the access and the network without the time commitment and the tuition costs. And so yeah, so it is a business school from a network and education perspective, but not an actual school, so not an accredited institute, not an actual school.

Stoy Hall, Host:
22:57

No, if you would have got accredited, I think what happened was like, that's what that would have came out to be. How many women are involved? How do people get involved? If they want to be part of it?

Kathryn Smith:
23:07

Yeah, so it is. It's people. It's not just women. So it's called Black Lady Business School because we, the two ladies that started it were black ladies and we're coming from a black lady experience. We were trying to leverage the community of black ladies to help other black ladies. But because we have we call them instructors because we're black. It's a school but not all of our instructors are ladies or black. And it's because business expertise comes in all shapes and sizes. So we, it is still called the black lady business school because it is For buying about black ladies, but it is open to really anyone who could use it because entrepreneurship is hard the community. We have a community. We have a community of instructors. We have communities of businesses or black ladies or businesses or students, for lack of a better term and then partners. So people that work with us at different parts. Different points throughout the year. There are a couple of different ways to get involved. Things that we're working on currently are actually we're headed into Black Friday. So we usually do a Black Friday, Cyber Monday workshop which will probably announce here in the next couple of weeks. I think it might be a series this year. So instead of doing a full day workshop or a series, Or two half day workshops. We might do it as a series of kind of weekly workshops leading up to Black Friday, just preparing small businesses to get ready for the biggest selling season of the year because a lot of merchants and e commerce sellers do a majority of their business in fourth quarter. So in that last quarter of the year. So there'll be a big push for that. Also we're going to bring back the black lady book club, my personal favorite. But I think that might be a January thing. But yeah, so black lady business school is the website for that. I think there's a space to sign up for the book club right now, but we haven't put the information about black Friday, cyber Monday up yet. That's coming soon.

Stoy Hall, Host:
24:56

So you talked about how being a business owner is tough. I say it sucks. It's most fulfilling thing ever, but one of the most fulfilling things ever, but it does suck right now. There's a lot of things that you gotta do. A lot of hats you gotta wear, a lot of things you gotta go through. As someone's listening to this, whether it is, to start a website, maybe start their own black ladies business what is one thing you want everyone to know that they can take that first step on in their journey?

Kathryn Smith:
25:21

There are a couple of things. So the two big things that I will say are that the way that entrepreneurship is depicted in popular media and culture and even social media is so important. fully accurate. So there are some people who will start their business and will be sitting on Lamborghinis in the driveway within a year, grow, growing and scaling six and seven figure businesses. But the real life stats aren't great for entrepreneurs. As a matter of fact, a significant portion of businesses fail within the first year of starting. A significant portion of businesses that survive past the 1st year will fail within 5 years. And then the average salary for an entrepreneur, the average income reported for an entrepreneur, something crazy, like 13000 dollars a year. When you see stats like that logically, it makes sense that not all entrepreneurs are going to end up sitting on Lamborghinis in their driveway, but it can be really difficult to remember that as you're struggling to grow a business, wondering why you haven't hit viral success yet. So the first Message that I would give to people that are starting out is just be take all of that with a grain of salt. Everyone grows at a different pace. I think consistency is way more important than virality or, hitting that 6 or 7 figure mark within 6 months or within a year because that's what it is. Not very many people, if any people at all actually hit those marks. And so you're not failing if you don't. So yeah, just hang, stick with it, hang in there, grow, plan to grow slowly. And I think you'll be more successful. I think that's the reason why I've been, my business has been around for five years. Then the second thing I would say, start somewhere. Just start somewhere. I know a lot of small businesses have analysis paralysis they analyze everything to death to your point. They think it needs to be perfect before it is launched. They have to plan this. I'm going to buy the domain. I'm going to get my logo designed. I'm going to do the website. We're going to have a product drafted up. My packaging is going to be perfect. Don't worry about it. A lot of that has to change within, a lot of that will change within the first year anyway. And so if you can grow a business and keep it lean, so don't spend too much money on branding, don't spend too much money on packaging, don't spend too much money on any of those things that could potentially change. I think it will be a lot easier to grow a sustainable business and to realize profit a little bit sooner. Sooner. And that's something I wish that I had learned. I was like, Oh yeah, I'm totally going to invest in this platform. What's 3, 000. And I really wish I'd had that 3, 000 that first year.

Stoy Hall, Host:
27:53

Guilty more than once guilty. You nailed it. So everyone listening just start somewhere, right? And understand that this is a journey. You're not going to get rich quick. It's not a real thing. Trust me. Tried it. I've seen other people fail. It is a journey. You're going to slog through it, but ultimately, as long as you're transparent and just being real with people, you're going to be successful. So just keep riding that one out. Catherine, appreciate your time. You're amazing. When I get down to Atlanta. We're gonna hang out because absolutely, I think we got a lot of fun. You seem like fun. I appreciate your time

Kathryn Smith:
28:29

Yeah, thank you so much for having me

Black Mammoth:
28:32

Graham was sponsored by Black Mammoth. Any awards, rankings, or recognition by unaffiliated third parties or publications are in no way indicative of the advisor's future performance or any individual client's investment success. No award, ranking, or recognition should be construed as a current or past endorsement of Black Mammoth. Information regarding specific awards, rankings, or recognitions is available on the Black Mammoth website, www. blackmammoth. com. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. Investment strategies such as asset allocation, diversification, or rebalancing do not assure or guarantee better performance and cannot eliminate the risk of investment losses. There are no guarantees that a portfolio employing these or any other strategy will outperform a portfolio that does not engage in such strategies. This broadcast should not be construed by any client or prospective client as a solicitation to affect or attempt to affect transactions and securities or the rendering of personalized investment advice due to various factors, including changing market conditions. The information discussed in this broadcast may no longer be reflective of current positions or recommendations. While information presented is believed to be factual and up to date, Black Mammoth do not guarantee its accuracy and it should not be regarded as a complete analysis of the subjects discussed. The tax and the state planning information discussed is general in nature and is provided for informational purposes only and should not be construed as legal or tax advice. Listeners should consult an attorney or tax professional regarding their specific legal or tax situation. Past performance is not indicative of future results.